Ruger g.s. Scout rifle.

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I beg to differ. I suspect that Jeff Cooper would be appalled. His specs for a Scout Rifle included "light and handy". The Ruger effort is heavy for a 308 carbine and has a magazine sticking out - way out - of the stock for styling reasons. Not very handy. Ruger could have easily made it with a lighter stock and internal magazine but decided not to for marketing reasons.

It's not a bad rifle, it's just not a good Scout rifle.
T
This ^ Especially the mag issue. After test firing one, that alone was enough to convince me that I didn't want one. Perhaps if it took M1A mags for .308 or STANAG in .223 it would be worth putting up with them sticking out like that. But for a single stack proprietary magazine? Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to a mauser type internal stripper fed magazine instead.
 
Not when the subject is how Jeff Cooper would feel about it.

As I said, it's not a bad rifle. I agree that it's sturdy and should stand up to a lot of abuse. If Ruger had called it the "Truck Buddy" or the "Service Max" or something similar I'd have no complaint. But they called it the "Gunsite Scout" which invites comparison to Cooper's Scout Rifle formula. Which it doesn't meet particularly well.
Other than weight, what's your beef with it? They didn't call it a "Gunsite Scout" rifle on their own. Their use of the name has the approval of Gunsite. Not everyone shares your view of what Cooper might have thought about it:
Late last year Ruger demonstrated its confidence in the new Scout rifle by holding a formal rollout at the scout rifle’s breeding grounds: Gunsite.
...
Most participants, many with military or law enforcement backgrounds, found the new rifle quick-handling, practical, accurate and generally appealing throughout the exercises, and some appeared downright convinced not only of the scout concept’s validity but that the new Ruger was the best factory scout to date, especially when price was taken into consideration.
...
From even a cursory study of Cooper’s writings, though, it is likely he would have appreciated the new Ruger for exactly what it is—a well-executed, reasonably affordable scout rifle from a major U.S. factory gunmaker. More importantly it is likely that the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle will earn a place among scout rifle aficionados and converts alike who will realize they no longer have to settle for anything else.

Source.
 
I have had a GSR for quite some time now. It is a great rifle and works well for me. It is super accurate, has a good trigger, strong action, iron sights, and two different scope mounting positions. The mag thing is over done. They tried to use the M14 style mag, but it did not work. They went with Accuracy International mags and they did. As an aside, I used modified m14 mags in my Ruger Frontier and it more or less sucked. Yes it worked, but was hard as hell to chamber rounds. The AI mags feed like butter. They are also available from many sources other than Ruger. I have steel mags, but would also like to try the Ruger poly mags.

I really don't Think Cooper would be aghast at the sight of a Ruger GSR. It was developed at his beloved Gunsite with major input from their top instructors. While it might not be a "pure" scout, not many are. Cooper himself often pointed out the difficulty in producing them at reasonable cost. I think he would be more pleased with a broader embrace of his ideals than to nitpick the small points.
 
Other than weight, what's your beef with it?

The magazine sticks out too far for styling reasons.

They didn't call it a "Gunsite Scout" rifle on their own. Their use of the name has the approval of Gunsite. Not everyone shares your view of what Cooper might have thought about it:

Yes, I'm well aware that once Jeff Cooper was safely dead, the current owners of Gunsite sold out to Ruger. But you have a good point; it's perfectly fair to say that the GSR conforms to the current Gunsite ownership's idea of what a Scout rifle should be. It just doesn't conform to Jeff Cooper's idea of what a Scout rifle should be.

Perhaps we should look at what Cooper himself thought about it:

I do not pretend to own the English language, and I do not claim to own the term "scout," but the scout rifle concept is mine, and I know what I mean by it, even if others do not. The essential element of the Scout Rifle, as I see it, is "friendliness," combined with all−purpose utility. The piece should be short, light and handy, and still dispose of sufficient power and range to accomplish any reasonable task in the hands of a skilful rifleman.

Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, No 10, Vol 12 page 62
[emphasis added]

So I think it's fair to say that unless a rifle is short, light and handy, it doesn't fit Jeff Cooper's idea of what a scout rifle should be.

Well, at least the GSR is short. No amount of talking is going to make it light and handy.
 
I almost hate to break this to you, but to SOME of us the GSR IS "short, light and handy".

Spend a few years (or many) hauling full-size FALs, M14s, or even such things as Model 70 or Springfield '03 sporters, and there is a VERY REAL difference in the GSR.

It's a fact of life in firearms design that if one intends to have the capability for even limited 'sustained fire' (a possible requirement of a GSR), a certain amount of STEEL is needed to resist the effects of heat build-up. I consider the GSR to meet that need with a bare minimum of weight for its role in MY armory.

Of course, I'm ex-infantry, so my opinions were formed "in the field", as it were..... not from magazines or textbooks.
 
I almost hate to break this to you, but to SOME of us the GSR IS "short, light and handy".

The point is not whether or not the GSR meets MY definition of a Scout rifle or YOUR definition, but Jeff Cooper's definition. This is well documented and the GSR simply does not meet it. Period.

If you can find something in Cooper's writings that supports the contention that he would consider an 8+ lb (with the magazine, scope and sling, not Ruger's advertised weight) 308 carbine "light" or a magazine that protrudes several inches beyond the trigger guard as "handy", then I'll be glad to reconsider.

The point that seems to be universally missed is that the GSR is a good rifle for lots of applications. If you are happy with yours, more power to you.

It just doesn't conform to Cooper's idea of a Scout rifle, no matter what semantic gymnastics you perform in a vain attempt to make it so.
 
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The Ruger effort is heavy for a 308 carbine and has a magazine sticking out - way out - of the stock for styling reasons.

That keeps killing it for me. @$%#! mags reminds me of a Sailboat Fin Keel.
 
The magazine sticks out too far for styling reasons.
I don't see "style" in "short, light, and handy," though I will concede that to some the long magazine might detract from how "handy" they perceive it to be. But if that's the case, there are now the 5 round polymer magazines to address that, and even help a bit with the weight.

I concede, too, that tricked out with a scope and sling, and a five round polymer mag, the rifle is still likely (I have not done any scientific analysis) to be a bit above the upper end some times quoted for the weight of a "legitimate" scout rifle (7.7 lbs). But not by much. And if that is all that is left of criticizing it, then it comes close to the Cooper ideal.

Then the question becomes what Cooper might have thought about that. And no one knows. Not even you. The OP made a point about what he thought Cooper would think of the GSR. You disagreed. I cited a source to suggest that others think Cooper might have like the GSR. You still wonder about that. And that's all we can do, unless Cooper speaks to us somehow from beyond the grave.

Meanwhile, let's shift the focus of the debate a bit. It seems that the idea of a scout rifle, along the lines conceived by Cooper, has become, or is becoming, a popular notion among shooters. So the question I have is this: If the idea is popular, and Cooper's criteria are so determinative of what we think the scout rifle should be, then why aren't there more commercial rifles that satisfy the criteria? The benchmark is the Steyr, of course, but it is very expensive. Is that the problem, that Cooper's criteria are hard to satisfy in a mass produced rifle, without going to a lot of expense? Besides having some specific ideas about what a scout rifle should be, I think Cooper would have wanted it to be available to everyman as well, and not a rifle just for the elite. And maybe that is just not possible, without some compromises.

In the end, no one knows what Cooper would have thought about the GSR. Perhaps he would have approved, on the grounds that while not perfect, it was close, and at half (or one third) the price of a Steyr, made it more accessible to the common man. Who knows?

Moreover, while Cooper "owned" a particular definition of a "scout rifle," the idea antedated his formulation. So while the GSR might not meet Cooper's criteria precisely, as has already been noted, many do find it "short, light, and handy" and thus deserving of the descriptive term "scout rifle" on its own merits.

The term "scout rifle" has come to apply to a lot of variations that might not meet Cooper's criteria, strictly speaking. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, perhaps "short, light, and handy" is also. I understand why you challenged the OP's remark. He cannot know what Cooper would have thought of the GSR, any more than you can. We can make some objective assessments, as you have done with weight, and point out where it falls short of Cooper's criteria. But that doesn't nullify calling the GSR a "scout rifle." If enough people think of it as a "scout rifle," that it what it is. I own three "scout" rifles, none of which would meet Cooper's criteria. Some would rather refer to these types of rifles as "Pseudo scouts." But that enshrines Cooper's definition as the only possible one. I do not buy that. Cooper deserves all the credit we can give him for popularizing the concept, and giving it concrete expression, but with language being what it is, no one can stop the term "scout rifle" from being used to refer to guns that do not meet his criteria perfectly. I'm not so sure that he would mind that, as long as he got the credit for the general idea. But again, who knows?
 
Baz is right! I or anyone else will never know what Mr. Cooper would have said about the Ruger GSR. It was just my opinion. I agree with Baz though, I think it meets the criteria set forth by Cooper. To me it is short, light & handy! Some may feel otherwise! That's your choice but to most I believe it will be a scout rifle! Say what you want to, but I am happy with it & that's all that counts in the end! :)
 
The point is not whether or not the GSR meets MY definition of a Scout rifle or YOUR definition, but Jeff Cooper's definition. This is well documented and the GSR simply does not meet it. Period.

Has Jeff Cooper come back from the grave and commented on it?
 
I emailed MPI stocks specifically about making a polymer stock for the Ruger GS scout. They can make one in about 3 months for $800 that would likely shave a pound or more off the weight. Of course that price starts to get you to the Styer scout.
 
Has Jeff Cooper come back from the grave and commented on it?
Obviously not. However, his opinions on the subject are well documented and one can reasonably extrapolate what his reaction would have been.

Either the weight is within the limit or it's not. It's not, and it could easily have been with a more judicious choice of stock materials. A word on the weight limit is in order. The original limit was 3 kilos (6.7 lbs). This was later expanded to 3.5 kilos (7.7 lbs) to accommodate long action “pseudo-scouts”, larger caliber versions with heavier barrels and the Steyr Scout, which was somewhat over the original limit due to the inclusion of a bipod, extra magazine holder and second magazine. The Ruger has none of these features.

I think it's fair to say that Jeff Cooper was a big fan of function over form and - IMHO - sacrificing handiness for the sole purpose of making the rifle look like an M14 probably would not have gone over well.

In other words, if Jeff Cooper had designed a Scout Rifle with access to Ruger's resources, I don't think it would have had a stock made of the heaviest material commonly used for stock building and I don't think it would have had its current magazine design. One need look no further than the magazine on the Steyr Scout, a rifle he DID have a hand in designing, to confirm that.

Here's a few of Cooper's actual quotes on the subject:
The Remington 600 carbine was the immediate ancestor of the modern Scout, and it was the weapon upon which the weight criterion was established at 3 kilograms (6.7 lbs, sights and all)

….. one cannot build an approximation of a Scout and expect results. The job should be done right or not at all.

The Scout project has "charged off madly in all directions." I guess I should not be surprised. Nobody owns the word "Scout," and anyone is free to call anything whatever he wants except on American university campuses, of course. Nonetheless, I should point out a couple of rather important criteria:
1. The Scout really should make weight, and weight is 3kg (6.7lbs) including sights…..

But even with the Springfield action, a "pseudo−scout" in 30−06 should be held to 7.5lbs, including telescope.

On the matter of Scouts, we are mildly annoyed to discover that the term has been picked up and run off with by all sorts of people who have never seen a true Scout and do not know what it is. Most of these people do not realize that a Scout must make weight

I have tried to write the matter up on several occasions, but I am amazed at the number of people who adopt a term without reading into it.

These are all from Volumes 1-3 in Cooper's Commentaries. There are plenty more.
 
As an old head who actually has a Ruger GSR and shoots it, I can say it fills the bill of short, light and handy. I sold five guns this model simply outclassed and replaced.

BTW, this gun IS a controlled feed '98 type. I will only own a '98 type if a turnbolt gun. Feeding is silky smooth with a variety of bullet designs. Get a few extra mags.

If the gun is too heavy for you, quit stuffing your piehole with cheeseburgers and cake, and go to the gym. You also need to carry water, food, bedding, and extra ammo if in the field or in a "situation". If this is too heavy for you, take steps to fix that.

The first time I took mine to the range, I fired about 100 rds through it. I was amazed at the mild recoil of this arm with full throttle loads. The second time, 80+ rds. When I take it to the range, I fire every round I have. The only negative about the gun is the ease with which large quantities of ammo are consumed.

I reluctantly installed a Loopie Scout scope, simply because the irons on the gun made 200 yd steel silhouette hits a sure thing.

A 6-something pound rifle would be great to carry, but in 308 it would be miserable to shoot. I would like to see this arm in 260 Remington.

I like the gun the way it is. You can always drop a couple of grand on a set up Steyr, while realizing they sold high performance battle arms to our enemies that have been used against us.

My REAL 1898 Mauser is an FN-equipped 1948 Husqvarna Sporter in 8X57S. This gun weighs in at less than 7 pounds and will give you a butt-kicking when you shoot it.

Jeff was a good guy with good ideas, but his ideas were from another time. I don't drink Jeff's Kool Aid. He thought Glocks sucked. Thought the Bren Ten was the Holy Grail. Missed the mark on those.
 
I think it's fair to say that Jeff Cooper was a big fan of function over form and - IMHO - sacrificing handiness for the sole purpose of making the rifle look like an M14 probably would not have gone over well.


You're misinformed. The rifle uses the magazines it does, because those magazines are as close to ubiquitous as a detachable bolt action rifle magazine gets, and they were designed for use on a bolt action rifle, by accuracy international for use on their R700 chassis.
 
If the gun is too heavy for you, quit stuffing your piehole with cheeseburgers and cake, and go to the gym....[further personal attacks deleted]

It appears you don't understand the concept of "handiness" and why weight you carry in your hand is a lot more important than weight you carry in your pack.

A 6-something pound rifle would be great to carry, but in 308 it would be miserable to shoot.

I own a 6.2 lb 308 and have no problem with the recoil. Perhaps you should go to the gym....:)

Jeff was a good guy with good ideas, but his ideas were from another time. I don't drink Jeff's Kool Aid. He thought Glocks sucked. Thought the Bren Ten was the Holy Grail. Missed the mark on those.

Your perfectly free to disagree with what Jeff Cooper said. I only take exception to those who misstate what he said.
 
I think it's fair to say that Jeff Cooper was a big fan of function over form and - IMHO - sacrificing handiness for the sole purpose of making the rifle look like an M14 probably would not have gone over well.

You're misinformed. The rifle uses the magazines it does, because those magazines are as close to ubiquitous as a detachable bolt action rifle magazine gets, and they were designed for use on a bolt action rifle, by accuracy international for use on their R700 chassis.

I'm pretty sure the GSR resembles an M14 and I don't think it's a coincidence:

GSRvM14_zps05bf56e8.jpg
 
C'mon now. Ruger already has a replica of the M14, which we all know is a Mini. ;)

What is unspoken, is that the Ruger GSR is really the lovechild of the Jungle Carbine and a short barreled sniper rifle, like a Steyr. The original issue mags that come with the Ruger GSR just got too much Viagra, that's all.
 
You're misinformed. The rifle uses the magazines it does, because those magazines are as close to ubiquitous as a detachable bolt action rifle magazine gets, and they were designed for use on a bolt action rifle, by accuracy international for use on their R700 chassis.

So some of you would consider these magazines as "Off the Shelf " and not proprietary?
Can you buy them now from either Accuracy International or Ruger?
The point I am making here as they made a choice and from the stuff I have seen your magazines are going to cost you in the $80.00 and up neighborhood.
I'm just saying that Ruger has went a very long way to find a magazine that works in a rifle they designed.
Now did they design the rifle around the magazine or the magzine around the rifle?
 
the magazine was designed to run in bolt action rifles that weren't designed from the beginning to have detachable magazines, like the remington 700 and the ruger m77.

the GSR action is fundamentally unchanged from its parent rifle, the ruger m77.

ruger had no design input on the magazine, AI just did a good job designing the magazine to work.
 
I shot one. Good rifle. But I wouldn't call it a scout rifle except that's the label for it. :) I think it would make a good truck gun, particularly if a shorter mag was used. And, not bad at all for a basic hunting rifle.
 
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