A Carbine. What Caliber?

What flavor of Carbine?

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Having heard how loud 5.56 AR's are in an indoor range even WITH the hearing protectors I can't imagine the shock to the hearing and likely some related sound induced temporary disorientation that would come from actually shooting an AR indoors in a small area without hearing protection. The only good thing is that both the attacker and defender would be equally affected in the event of a miss. Otherwise that first shot had better be a good one.
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Another wonderful aspect of the 300 Blackout even without a can the subsonic loads are pretty quiet compared to a 9mm +p from a pistol.
 
mavracer said:
Another wonderful aspect of the 300 Blackout even without a can the subsonic loads are pretty quiet compared to a 9mm +p from a pistol.
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Isn't this thread about carbines?

Yes, the AAC .300 has some big advantages. But as soon as price/economics enters the equation, it's difficult to compare .300 with 9mm.
 
Yes, the AAC .300 has some big advantages. But as soon as price/economics enters the equation, it's difficult to compare .300 with 9mm.
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I probably should have left the pistol out of my comment I knew somebody would zero in on that. Subsonic 300 blackout is still going to be quieter than supersonic 9mm because 300 blackout subsonics run at much lower pressure. As to cost blackout cost about the same to load for FMJ.
 
The .300 Blackout might well be the "better mouse trap". I've never heard a gun shooting that cartridge but all the information I've read suggests that it's a pretty quiet option.

But it does toss out the simplicity and flexibility of shared ammo and magazines if the firearms are chosen for that sort of compatibility.
 
mavracer said:
I probably should have left the pistol out of my comment I knew somebody would zero in on that. Subsonic 300 blackout is still going to be quieter than supersonic 9mm because 300 blackout subsonics run at much lower pressure. As to cost blackout cost about the same to load for FMJ.
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You load AAC .300 blackout for about the same as 9x19?
 
I'm kind of surprised at the resurgence of .45acp vs 10mm for second place. Admittedly I love the idea of 10mm shock and awe, but I love the idea of actually being able to easily get the ammo in question almost as much.
 
Warp said:
You load AAC .300 blackout for about the same as 9x19?
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Before the current panic I suspect that deals could be found on various .308 bullets that would allow for low cost reloading. Not as low as 9x19 but within nickel to dime of the 9mm.

Consider too that at speeds of up to around 1500fps that cast gas check bullets could be validly used if the shooter wanted to play around with finding a load and bullet shape that fed correctly. That opens up the door to home casting and drops the price to about the same or perhaps even lower than loading a 9mm with a commercial bullet.
 
BCRider said:
Before the current panic I suspect that deals could be found on various .308 bullets that would allow for low cost reloading. Not as low as 9x19 but within nickel to dime of the 9mm.

Consider too that at speeds of up to around 1500fps that cast gas check bullets could be validly used if the shooter wanted to play around with finding a load and bullet shape that fed correctly. That opens up the door to home casting and drops the price to about the same or perhaps even lower than loading a 9mm with a commercial bullet.
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So this is speculation.

I haven't yet met somebody who legitimately reloads .300 for about the same cost as 9x19. Not even close.
 
I went through this decision a short time ago myself, but it was only between the 9mm and .45 ACP. This was before I started reloading, but even so, my answer would be the same today. Even though I didn't own another 9mm gun at the time (I do now), I went with the 9mm. The main reason was due to cost to feed. Since I started reloading (before the great ammo crisis!), the cost difference really isn't much. Having said that, I'd STILL choose 9mm simply because the cartridge gains so much from the longer barrel, while the .45 ACP actaully LOSES velocity in the longer barrel. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I'm almost positive the 9 was MORE powerful than the 45 from the longer barrel. I'm certain that it was flatter shooting by a long shot, as well. I had not considered the other calibers in your survey though.....

Warner
 
You load AAC .300 blackout for about the same as 9x19?
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No I'm loading 168gr match bullets at 1800 fps for about 25 cents a round, but when I bought my bullets I had a chance to buy 147gr FMJs for $119 per K which would drop my per round cost to 17 cents.
 
.....I'd STILL choose 9mm simply because the cartridge gains so much from the longer barrel, while the .45 ACP actaully LOSES velocity in the longer barrel. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I'm almost positive the 9 was MORE powerful than the 45 from the longer barrel. I'm certain that it was flatter shooting by a long shot, as well. I had not considered the other calibers in your survey though.....
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It really depends on the cartridge. Some .45 does really not gain anything in a longer barrel, some does. Without a doubt a higher pressure round like the 9mm luger does get some great gains in a longer barrel, as does .357Mag (some are 2x velocity gain, that's HUGE!), 357Sig, 10mm, and 44Mag

Love this site: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html
 
"Have you considered a .30 carbine? It's still one of the best platforms of all time IMO. "

This comment appeared early on this thread. Hope somebody can explain more details .... I'm curious about the positive feedback on the .30

thanks,
CA R
 
I've always liked the concept of a 10mm carbine as an HD weapon. I'd still be interested in owning one, especially out of the calibers listed. But it would have a very specific roll as a fun gun or possible HD gun. And for the latter roll, I would have to consider whether I wanted to give up a 5.56 platform. Off the top of my head I'm still inclined to go with the more potent rifle.

While it's a fun thought experiment and it would be cool to own such a thing in 10mm, it also wouldn't do all. I wouldn't hunt with it as a rifle would be a better choice. I wouldn't carry it as it would be too large.
 
It is not listed there but my choice would be the 357 magnum and 44 magnum as you can also use the 38 special and 44 special. Also the 357and 44 magnums gain excellent velocity with a longer barrel such as a 16 inch compared to the other choices listed. Just my opinion. God Blessc :)
 
mljdeckard said:
I concur with jmr completely.
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I don't.

When a PCC can not only take the same sidearm ammo, but also take the same magazines in most cases, it makes quite a bit of sense.

As much as I detest the Keltec fold up thingy, it has the ability to work with popular pistol manufacturers magazines, like Glock and Berretta. That's not only 9x19, either. Tell Spec Ops units that the silenced MP5s are obsolete.

CQB doesn't necessitate only mid power rifle cartridges, or else our military would be packing AR pistols, and our enemies would have Dracos on their sides.
 
Cosmoline said:
It gets super confusing. The fact is most WWII era bolt action "rifles" were really CARBINES. Some were even called as much, like the K-98k or the K-31 Swiss. K being short for karabiner. Then there's the added confusion of the "short rifles" mixed into the batch. So you can have Mauser rifles, Mauser carbines and Mauser short rifles all of highly variable sizes.

For this thread I think the term would be "pistol caliber carbine." And in this case obviously a semiauto pistol caliber carbine.
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Well, semantics. The "K" is short for "Kurz" which in turn means...short! Ip so facto, a carbine!
 
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