Stop Buying Ammo For a Month...

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Based on a conversation with the ammo counter clerk at my local Wal-Mart, the same small group of people (less than 5) camp out in the store for 3-4 hours waiting for each ammunition shipment that comes in. They buy it all and the shelves stay bare.

Any real solution will have to get through to the small but highly motivated group of people who are insuring that the shelves stay empty.
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This has been my experience as well. Last month, I rolled in at around 0430 just to see what was what. There was a line at the ammo counter. When I asked the "regulars" about it, they said that they did this all the time; furthermore, they knew what had been delivered before it showed up. I pretty much gave up on Walmart at that point. I'd be willing to get up early for ammo if I needed some, but I'm not willing to wait in line for one to three hours after I get there.

Interestingly enough, last week the LGS had literally thousands of rounds of milsurp (not American) 5.56mm, Tula 7.62x39, and Yugo 7.62x54 with a bit of commercial as well. Also multiple cases of Tula .45 ACP. They even had a few hundred CCI .22LR. I didn't buy any because I didn't need any and they wanted to much for everything but the 5.56mm, but the guy behind the counter said that he gets stuff in every couple of weeks and it usually lasts for a week or two.

He did mention that the stuff that was more expensive than usual was the distributor's fault - he mentioned that they'd been gouging him. Of course, this store had been expensive before any of this happened, so who knows?

I can't make sense of it.
 
Queen, I don't think anybody blames shooters that wait in line to get ammo, but personally, I am disgusted by the people that do that to turn around and sell it for a profit, but not to shoot it. In my area, it's a mid-20's guy and a woman with him. I don't know about her, but the clerk said the guy is on welfare. I think stuff like that bothers all of us, but not true gun owners putting in the time to find ammo.
 
fanchisimo said:
Queen, I don't think anybody blames shooters that wait in line to get ammo, but personally, I am disgusted by the people that do that to turn around and sell it for a profit, but not to shoot it. In my area, it's a mid-20's guy and a woman with him. I don't know about her, but the clerk said the guy is on welfare. I think stuff like that bothers all of us, but not true gun owners putting in the time to find ammo.
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He is taking a risk buying ammo to resell. The market will get progressively softer. There won't be some magical moment when one day we all wake up and ammo is plentiful at normal prices. It is going to be gradual. More ammo will become available, people will replenish whatever stock they feel comfortable with, and the resellers will see their margins drop to the point that they can't break even after tax. If the resellers aren't careful, they will end up with a supply that they will have to take a loss on.

A free market is a free market. I choose not to pay their prices because I'd rather be in line at Academy, and/or find other sources. The resellers are making money because there is demand. You don't have to like it, but capitalism is a double edged sword.
 
Now this excuse of people standing in line to buy all of the ammo up is nonsense. I suggest if you or anyone else who wants ammo that you adopt our methods. If you want ammo these days you have to work for it and that means standing in line waiting to buy ammo be it at Walmart,Academy or where ever. It hasn't been easy but the work has paid off.
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This isn't about my getting ammo. I have plenty of ammunition because when it's plentiful and the prices are low, I buy it in bulk and keep a stocked inventory so I don't run out when people get crazy--like they are right now.

What's more, the ammunition comes directly to my door so I don't even have to drive to the store to get it, and better yet, I buy it at prices lower than I would pay at the local store--even after factoring shipping into the final price.

The problem is that people who didn't, or couldn't plan ahead, and who can't spend 10-14 hours a week camped out at a big box store can't get ammunition, and the even bigger problem is that because the shelves are staying bare, more people every day are being convinced that there's a reason to be panicked and that will extend the shortage even longer.
 
Well like a few others I have been pretty well stocked up on most of my ammo needs for a while and have not had the need to purchase any ammo for over a year, but recently I won a raffle and acquired a new mouth to feed. So now I am doing what I did for the other calibers. Ordering components and dyes on back order and waiting patiently. But I will do my best not to add to the ammo problem. (Does it count as hording if they are not all assembled into a usable bullet?)
 
Anyone who stops buying ammo in protest will just deprive themselves of ammo. There's millions of others out there who won't participate, you'd only hurt yourself and miss out.
 
JohnKSa said:
Based on a conversation with the ammo counter clerk at my local Wal-Mart, the same small group of people (less than 5) camp out in the store for 3-4 hours waiting for each ammunition shipment that comes in. They buy it all and the shelves stay bare.
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Walmart has a 3 box per day maximum for all calibers. (Some places only let you buy one box.) You can buy 3 boxes of 9mm, or 2 boxes of 9mm and .one .45 etc. That means these 5 guys are buying up 15 boxes of various calibers (.38, .357, 9mm, .40, .45, .22, .308, .223 etc etc) and some how they are completely emptying the shelves? Spread across 10 or 15 popular calibers?

I've stood in a line a couple of times recently. Not early in the morning but during the day when I walked in and they magically just happened to have had ammo. Talking with the other 3 or 4 guys also waiting, I found out most of them were just buying ammo to go shoot a box to keep up to date on their practicing or teaching their kid how to shoot or something similar.

There are some people selling ammo at high prices. I imagine they are people who stocked up 10 years ago. I doubt the existence of dedicated mass hordes of "flippers" who are stalking Walmart each day with the idea of making double their money on a resale. Has it happened? I'm sure it has. Are there large numbers of people doing it and this somehow explains why ammo is tough to get? No. The simple truth is that your buddy, your neighbor, your cousin, your friends and everyone else you know decided a couple of months ago that they'd rather have ammo than not. Since everyone decided to do it all at once, we've got a supply problem now. That's it. End of story.

As George Bailey might say, "You're thinking of this all wrong. The ammo's not here. It's in Bill's house. And Jean's house. And Fred's house. You know them. That's where it's gone."
 
I have spent the sum total of $23 on ammo since December 2012. That is all I could find at a price I was willing to pay.
 
That means these 5 guys are buying up 15 boxes of various calibers (.38, .357, 9mm, .40, .45, .22, .308, .223 etc etc) and some how they are completely emptying the shelves? Spread across 10 or 15 popular calibers?
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This goes back to my comment about people not understanding the ammunition supply chain.

The typical Wal-Mart store doesn't get thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition every day. They might get in 8 boxes of 9mm one week, and then maybe none the next week, then maybe another 10 the week after that. They're not set up to totally refill the shelves every time they get an order because they don't typically sell that much. The less popular rounds would probably come in even less often and in smaller quantities.

Ordering more has little effect because the ammunition makers can't ramp up production past a point without expanding and buying additional machinery. They're not going to make that kind of investment--they can't AFFORD to make that kind of investment based on a temporary spike in demand that will be gone in 6 months or so.

So YES. Once the shelves are bare, it takes only a handful of "dedicated" people to keep them bare.

It does take a good bit of demand to empty them in the first place, but after that it takes very little effort to keep the shortage going.
 
Based on a conversation with the ammo counter clerk at my local Wal-Mart, the same small group of people (less than 5) camp out in the store for 3-4 hours waiting for each ammunition shipment that comes in. They buy it all and the shelves stay bare.
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Ditto at my local Wal-Mart. The employee I spoke with said most of the folks in line openly admit to buying the ammo for resale on the web. My dad was able to score 2 bulk boxes of .45 for me by chance the other day. It would be nice if Wal-Mart could randomize their ammo stocking times to prevent the same group of people from getting all the ammo.
 
JohnKSa said:
This goes back to my comment about people not understanding the ammunition supply chain.

The typical Wal-Mart store doesn't get thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition every day. They might get in 8 boxes of 9mm one week, and then maybe none the next week, then maybe another 10 the week after that. They're not set up to totally refill the shelves every time they get an order because they don't typically sell that much. The less popular rounds would probably come in even less often and in smaller quantities.

Ordering more has little effect because the ammunition makers can't ramp up production past a point without expanding and buying additional machinery. They're not going to make that kind of investment--they can't AFFORD to make that kind of investment based on a temporary spike in demand that will be gone in 6 months or so.

So YES. Once the shelves are bare, it takes only a handful of "dedicated" people to keep them bare.

It does take a good bit of demand to empty them in the first place, but after that it takes very little effort to keep the shortage going.
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Partially. But it's more a function of Walmart's staffing. The ammo usually comes in case sizes cause that is how the manager in sporting goods orders them. No one buys 8 boxes because 8 boxes don't come in a case. Unless you are specially ordering some ammo for a customer who wants .21 Lilliput or some odd caliber. I've got relatives working in sporting goods. They say that they don't have time to put it out. So there may be 200 cases of ammo in the back in the gun room.They don't just leave it out. But with ONE person stocking the shelves...and having to spend 30 minutes running a NICS check on a gun purchase, and having to rearrange end caps, and doing 10,000 other things...they end up with not enough time to put ammo out.

Edit: It doesn't come in every day though. This is correct. But when it does come in from the Wal Mart DC (distribution center) they have piled ALL the ammo they have for your store on that shipment. If they have it, you get it. So when stores DO get a shipment in, it's 100's of boxes, or 10 cases, or however many the DC had that was suppose to go to your store. They don't send it as 1 case here, and then the next day another case. They put it on the "ammo pallet" for shipment.
 
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I reload and have plenty of everything. I just about never buy ammo now unless I get lazy at reloading (and at today's prices I just don't buy ammo from stores.)

Deaf
 
The resellers are not gonna lose money, if nothing else, they can sell it for what they paid for it, keeping whatever profits they had made if they didn't roll all of the profits into constantly increasing their supply.
 
Got ammo? It seems we are becoming divided into the "haves" and "have nots".

Of course it is expected that the "have nots" complain that it's not fair and that somehow the playing field should be made even.

Perhaps if the 2A weren't so infringed, ammo might be included with the other entitlements Uncle Sam is handing out.

Are we better off with the current capitalistic market or would a government solution be preferable?
 
I bought a brick of Remington .22 shorts as an "insurance brick" about 3 weeks ago.

I shoot mostly .22, and it will feed some things I have, and it was pre-frenzy price. So why not?



Other than that, I have not bought anything. I have what I need, and I don't want to contribute to the problem. I am trying to wait it out.
 
btg3 said:
Got ammo? It seems we are becoming divided into the "haves" and "have nots".

Of course it is expected that the "have nots" complain that it's not fair and that somehow the playing field should be made even.

Perhaps if the 2A weren't so infringed, ammo might be included with the other entitlements Uncle Sam is handing out.

Are we better off with the current capitalistic market or would a government solution be preferable?
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You hit on a major point here. All the people that are complaining about flippers, resellers, fairness, and the lack of ammo are some of the same people that preach the virtues of self reliance, small government, and denounce handouts and regulation. Well, you can't have someone else change the game in your favor without having that someone meddling in all of your other business, too. It is the entitlement mentality at work, and it makes me sick. Get your behind out of bed in the morning and join me and others waiting in line at 6 or 7am if you want ammo so bad. Or pay the resellers. Or wait. Your choice, but don't complain that the situation is "unfair".
 
I'd love to have ammo not to buy - I've been going to Walmart every saturday morning at 6:30am (not to mention other weekdays) for over a month to catch the new load off the truck for 9mm. Still haven't gotten any
 
Having planned ahead before the last two elections (we were warned), the only wait for many of is for more dry weather on our days off.
Even the mass tragedies of Virgina Tech or Aurora etc could have led to this situation, with no advance warning.
 
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To the guys who cannot find ammo anywhere, besides looking at Walmart where else you looking? I reload so the only ammo I have bought since the buying frenzy were 2 boxes of .45 hollow points.

On my excursions to gun shops and my daily life I find ammo everywhere. Is there a wide variety at every store? No. But its out there and at normal or slightly higher prices.

You guys need to give up on Walmart and start hitting a few local gun shops.
 
The ammo shortage, the fault of five particular people at every walmart store. The ammo & gun run of 2012/13 is the fault of only one party, and its a political one.
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The first sentence is a mischaracterization of what I said. What I said was that once the shelves are bare, it doesn't take many people to keep things that way, and pointed out that was what was happening at one particular Wal-Mart near my house. Second, I see that you have conveniently ignored the fact that a number of other posters have corroborated the gist of comments with the information they have obtained independently from their locations.

The second sentence in the quote is correct for the most part as to the original cause of the shortage but misses the primary point I made which is that once the shortage is in effect, it can be maintained, and is being maintained by a relatively small number of people.
Partially. But it's more a function of Walmart's staffing. The ammo usually comes in case sizes cause that is how the manager in sporting goods orders them. No one buys 8 boxes because 8 boxes don't come in a case. Unless you are specially ordering some ammo for a customer who wants .21 Lilliput or some odd caliber. I've got relatives working in sporting goods. They say that they don't have time to put it out. So there may be 200 cases of ammo in the back in the gun room.They don't just leave it out. But with ONE person stocking the shelves...and having to spend 30 minutes running a NICS check on a gun purchase, and having to rearrange end caps, and doing 10,000 other things...they end up with not enough time to put ammo out.
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I don't know what you tell you except that this runs contrary to everything I have heard from every informed source on the topic.

The Wal-Mart nearest my house posts the list of what they are expecting on the next truck, and when the truck comes in, they put out on the shelves exactly what the list predicted would come in. So no, I don't believe that they have thousands of rounds or hundreds of cases of ammo (at least not the high-demand calibers) sitting in the back that they won't put out because they're too busy to sell stuff. They may have a lot of birdshot in the back, if they were careless with their orders, because that stuff isn't selling and there's a ton of it out on the shelves, but no, I don't believe they would be placing purchase limits on something if they have a ton of it just sitting in the back--it defies logic.

Furthermore, when I drop in there at 8 or 9pm (I work late a lot), the sporting goods department is not busy and there's always a clerk hanging around taking care of minor issues. There's nothing to suggest that he can't get around to stocking the shelves, and the evidence from all accounts indicates that what they have, they put out. There's no reason for them to reserve stock that's selling like hotcakes by hiding it in the back. No matter how busy they are, ultimately they are in the business of selling stuff and you can't sell stuff that you hide from the customers.

They may be really busy at the Wal-Mart near your house, but I can assure you that at the 24HR Wal-Mart near my house in tiny-town semi-rural TX, they are not so busy that they can't put stock out on the shelves in the middle of the night. Especially since the sporting goods department closes at 10PM for ammo or firearm sales.
 
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This is just to help out the desperate. If high retail prices (with shipping incl.) for most of these are not a factor, you can find them
now at Ammoman, and most of these have been there since last Sunday night (six days ago):

.45 "Long Colt"
.44 Rem Mag.
.357 Magnum
.38 S&W-he sold out of .40 S&W after having it several days.
.32 ACP
9x18 Makarov
and maybe two other handgun 'flavors', one might be wadcutter.

5.56: Danish NATO
5.45x39 surplus
7.5 "Swiss", RUAG (Berdan).
7.62x54R surplus
Carcano
8x56RS
The very high prices for most of these seem to indicate why they are available (corr. primers in 5.45 and 7.62x54R),
for those who know about the company. Also, try "GunBot.com".
 
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You guys need to give up on Walmart and start hitting a few local gun shops.
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Wish I realistically had that option. I'm in a fairly urban area and the idea of "local gun shop" is non-existent here. I know of a few gun shops, but they are 30-45 mins away, and I'm just not willing to pay $20+ for 50 rounds of 9mm. Just my personal choice since I'm on a strict budget and Walmart is a mile away. I'm patient though, and I know things will calm down eventually. Glad others are having some luck though!
 
Well, you can't have someone else change the game in your favor without having that someone meddling in all of your other business, too. It is the entitlement mentality at work, and it makes me sick.
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rgwalt, it is entirely unfair that someone who doesn't work and has the time to sit around Wal-mart on our dime to buy ammo, then resell it to us at a mark-up, but is it that bad to hope for things to be fair? I don't think anybody wants a government authority to get involved with the issue as most of us preach the values you stated. We are hoping that these individuals maybe take it upon themselves to let others get some ammo that want it, but government intervention is not what we want to correct it. This occasional unfairness is part of the capitalism that makes this country great, but I am sorry that hoping for people to take it upon themselves to treat others as they wish to be treated makes you sick. I hope you have some Pepto close to you.
 
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