100 yd struggles

How many rounds in each group?

Do you count every round in each group?

Is there any trend or pattern to the groups you feel are too large? Stringing a certain way, being off on windage, off on elevation, just plain bigger groups in a shotgun pattern...?

Have you considered the effect of parallax on your sight picture? Its effect is much less evident at longer range and much more evident at higher magnification.

Group patterns are often diagnostic and correct diagnosis can get one to the truth somewhat quicker. Could you post pictures of your groups please.

Have you shot better groups before with this rifle or is this a recent thing? Have you shot 1" groups or better with other rifles? Please I am not being rude but just trying to also understand your level of skill and experience.

Would love to see the group patterns.

You could try to get off the bench with that bipod. If you are going to be on a bench, you'll get your best results shooting off a pack or some sandbags.

Your position needs to be double good when shooting a semi-auto. You have several recoil impulses to deal with, that don't exist when firing a bolt gun. You have the first recoil to the rear which is when the charge is ignited and the bullet starts its journey down the barrel, then another to the rear when the buffer hits the rear of the buffer tube, then one impulse forward when the BCG and buffer slap back into battery.

If your crosshair is leaving the POA during recoil, then you need to address your natural point of aim (NPA) to ensure you aren't muscling the rifle. Break the shot on your natural respiratory pause, maintain enough pressure on the trigger to keep it to the rear until the recoil impulse is over. At that point, release the trigger enough to allow the disconnector to let go of the hammer. You'll hear a distinctive "click" inside your lower. Then you can start your cycle for the next shot.

Let the shot happen. It wants to happen, so there's no need to force it. Just relax, and get out of its way.

Really sounds like parallax effect at the shorter range. Next time out set the rifle up at 100yds. and with no contact, move your head back and forth and see if the crosshairs stay steady.

Tell me more about this ammo. Reloads? Factory?

If reloads, how did you go about your load development?
If factory, have you tried a few different brands?

For me to get groups with three of my ARs (sold one) they all needed to be held firm and consistently. Try pulling the stock in a little tighter and use your off hand to put a little downward pressure on the hand guard to keep the bipod from jumping too much. I assume the barrel is free floating.
Last, I will align the redicule on the target, then adjust my body to fit the rifle. That prevents torquing the rifle to the target.

Sights

What happens.....what kind of groups do you get shooting without the scope, shooting iron sights? (Do you have irons for that upper?)
Pete.

looks like a parallax issue. If you put that rifle on a steady rest and look through the scope while moving your head around you'll likely see the crosshairs moving slightly. 1.5 moa should = 3'' at 200 yds. Most scopes should be parallax free at 100yds. Try shooting 120yds and see if the groups make more sense.

The good news is that 2.5" groups at 100 yards doesn't matter. That'll be fatal to anything you try to make dead. If accuracy improves beyond that, that's what's important--that's where stricter accuracy counts.

Stag makes a great AR. I used mixed factory ammo and got groups under 1.5 moa with each brand.
If you say you shoot 1.25 moa at 200yds then I do not suspect markmanship. And I'm thinking the Stag is good to go as well.

Plodder, It's parralax, You're taking shots at a much higher magnification at 100 yards whereas you think you have a good sight picture, so when you squeeze the trigger you think you were dead on. Now at 200 yards the magnification is much less therefore you must concentrate more before you squeeze off that next round and you have a much better group. Remember the old Marine adage "BRASS" or Breathe, Relax, Aim, Slack, Squeeze. At 100 yards I would not go beyond 4X, out to 200 yards 6-7X. Does that make sense?

Turn the scope down to 4x and loose the bipod. I bet you see an improvement.

might reduce or eliminate the effects of parralax

Click to expand...

Is you scope fixed or adjustable parallax? If adjustable, it gives you the means to correct parallax.

read the manual

Click to expand...

Scopes and Reloading are the only two times you can read the manual and still keep your man-card.

Could be parallax or the bullet itself. Given that you've chosen the heavy for caliber 77gr., it may require a bit more distance to stabilize.

I'd suggest checking your Vortex for a side focus adjustment knob as I believe all their 4-16X Vipers include one and load some 69gr. SMKs as a lighter alternative for midrange distances.

Hello,

I am seeing shooter error in NPOA.

Are you shooting with your breath all the way out? At natural respiratory pause?

Close your eyes, aim with your eyes closed. Now open them. Are you aiming where you thought you were? Looks like you're muscling the rifle over onto target.

I have a nice target/varmint style .22LR that I was trying to shoot sub-MOA at 100 yards with. I had the same problems I states above, and my groups looked exactly the same as yours. I consulted some shooters, a former sniper or two among them, and all gave the same basic advice I just passed along. It helped me get sub-MOA with a .22LR at that range. I hope it helps you, too!

Regards,

Josh

MutinousDoug said:

Have you considered the effect of parallax on your sight picture? Its effect is much less evident at longer range and much more evident at higher magnification.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking when I was reading the post!

I think thinks a big possibility esp with the situation described

My guess the issue is the bipod, I'm certain the vortex has an AO. i use my Stag with a Weaver 5-20x44, set on 20 power,normal groups are .650-.800 with reloads. I use a steel adjustable front rest never did well with a bipod.

For me, I'm seeing a lack of attention to the fundamentals in addition to a possible problem with parallax. Sincerely, no offense intended on my part. The shot one misses is always the easiest because you quit trying.

Like that last bird on a perfect round of skeet...or the fifth shot on a perfect group that is a blatant shank. You feel like it's a "gimme" and don't apply the same amount of focus and concentration that you did on the other "more difficult" shots. The only shot that matters is the one that you're currently firing. IMHO, magnification is not the issue here. BR shooters routinely shoot on 40x+ magnification at 100 yards. It doesn't seem to hinder their performance in the least.

If you reduce the magnification, all you are doing is lowering your standards. Instead of saying, "that's a crap group for 20x scope" you will say, "that's not bad for 4x at 100 yards."

Remove all those variables to start with and get a good baseline. Then add in parallax, varying bullet weights, etc, etc. You'll learn about you and the rifle at the same time. Change one thing at a time, whittling down the issues until you work them all out.

Obviously set the parallax, get a solid rest (front and rear), relax, and fire at the same point in your breathing. Rifle is all about consistency.

Lastly, ensure that you shoot an appropriate bullet weight for your barrel, of which you are currently doing. You should be able to shoot up to around an 80 grain bullet.