.22 Caliber rifle

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Let's see, a CZ452 is a $400 or so rifle (per Buds Gun Shop) 10/22's are around $200... Yeah, the CZ had better outshoot the Ruger out of the box. Either is a good choice, just pick if you want a semi or bolt action.
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People place value on different things. For some accuracy is the main priority and is what drives the purchase. For others, other qualities will factor into the purchase.

For example a lot of people spend over $1000 for a pre-64 Winchester 70 when an off the shelf $400 Savage will outshoot it.

I view the CZ 452 as something you could hand down to your kids...walnut and blued steel exude a bit more quality to me than an out of the box 10-22 with a syn stock or a cheap birch stock.

That being said you make some great points and I think the main thing the original poster needs to decide is whether he wants a bolt action or a semi.

The nice thing about .22LR rifles is that most are inexpensive enough that you can buy a few different types that will satisfy multiple desires.

I have a Remington 541S that is my favorite .22LR rifle to shoot but my Marlin 60 is fun as well. I will eventually get a 10-22 as well, and possibly a Savage MkII or CZ bolt action.

If I get rich someday I wouldn't mind a Cooper bolt action.

Lots of options out there that's for sure.
 
Dentite said:
People place value on different things. For some accuracy is the main priority and is what drives the purchase. For others, other qualities will factor into the purchase.
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I think you misinterpreted my point. I don't mean to say that the CZ isn't a great rifle. But to simply say that the CZ will outshoot a 10/22 and that makes the 10/22 a bad rifle ignores a few pieces of information. How I meant to come across is that the OP won't go wrong with either one.

Heck, I'm not even a 10/22 fan, I preferr the Remington 597 due to the better design of the action (looking for that flamesuit now...) I also love my Winchester 62, but the OP asked about the 452 and 10/22.
 
BluEyes said:
But to simply say that the CZ will outshoot a 10/22 and that makes the 10/22 a bad rifle ignores a few pieces of information.
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I don't recall anyone saying that a 10/22 is a "bad rifle". It does have some limitations, which can be overcome. But a CZ meets the OP's stated requirement much better, which is for "a gun that is going to be great RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX".
 
I have dozens of 22 rifles of all kinds from high end target rifles to low end plinkers. The 22 rifle I shoot the most is a pretty much stock (added a scope/sling) Ruger 10/22. From a standpoint of overall versatility, reliability and value it is a good choice. From an accuracy standpoint it is more accurate than the great majority of the people can shoot them ( I know because I teach rifle marksmanship to hundreds of people each year).

Buy whatever you want, but everybody should own a 10/22.
 
The 10-round rotary magazine of the 10/22 is slicker than owl poop, in my opinion, and I like that they're fast and easy to change and don't hang down, leaving a nice clean line on the underside of the rifle. The clear plastic mags are an added touch.

Too bad my gov'nr will only allow me to load seven! :barf:
 
The nice thing about .22LR rifles is that most are inexpensive enough that you can buy a few different types that will satisfy multiple desires.
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That right there is the real answer to all of these questions. Get both. It works every time.

That said I certainly don't agree that everyone needs a 10/22. I don't have one, have never owned one and likely never will just because of comments like that. It turns me against the rifles that people try to preach them up as the greatest thing in firearms. They're ok. They're good even. They're not that great though. Nothing is. Still a Marlin 60 is a better out of the box semi-auto and to fill the needs of the OP, which he stated was accuracy, the CZ is head and shoulders above a Ruger 10/22.

BTW I think I originally didn't like Rugers because people kept telling me how great those rotary mags are. I can't stand the little buggers myself. Lots of rifles don't have mags that hang down below the rifle. Most notably the Marlin 60 fits that description and it holds far more ammo and loads far easier. That's why I really don't like those mags btw. They are freaking hard to load. My fingers hurt just thinking about it. Keeping that mag from twisting while you push rounds in is a big hassle. It doesn't compare with just dropping rounds in a Marlin or a Henry. The aftermarket mags are much better IMO because you can get a grip on those and load them. It doesn't take a 50 round mag to shoot ammo though. If you like that then go for it but don't expect to be able to use a rest. I have a Marlin XT that will hold 25 shorts in a tube mag that doesn't hang down at all.

I actually don't hate Rugers. They're pretty good rifles. They're better than most. They just aren't something everyone needs. That sort of hyperbole is what keeps me from ever wanting one. I wouldn't want people thinking I believed something like that. I wouldn't want people coming up to me at the gun range talking about how fabulous they are. They just aren't as good as people make them out to be. Haven't you ever gotten tired of hearing how great something is when you don't think it's great at all? The 10/22 is NOT a "great" rifle. It's a very good rifle yes. It's versatile, upgradeable, reliable and fairly accurate. But it isn't as accurate as a much cheaper rifle called the Marlin 60. Not until you add a bunch of bling on it anyway. By that time you could have bought a really good rifle that truly is great - like a CZ 452.
 
Cee Zee said:
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BTW I think I originally didn't like Rugers because people kept telling me how great those rotary mags are. I can't stand the little buggers myself. Lots of rifles don't have mags that hang down below the rifle. Most notably the Marlin 60 fits that description and it holds far more ammo and loads far easier. That's why I really don't like those mags btw. They are freaking hard to load. My fingers hurt just thinking about it. Keeping that mag from twisting while you push rounds in is a big hassle. It doesn't compare with just dropping rounds in a Marlin or a Henry. The aftermarket mags are much better IMO because you can get a grip on those and load them. It doesn't take a 50 round mag to shoot ammo though. If you like that then go for it but don't expect to be able to use a rest. I have a Marlin XT that will hold 25 shorts in a tube mag that doesn't hang down at all.
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Apples to oranges. The Marlin 60 has a tubular mag, which of course does not hang down. Additional "magazines" do not exist for tube mags, so when I shoot my Marlin 60 at, for example, an Appleeed event and need to reload fast, I keep additional rounds stored in several aluminum knitting needles that I stick in the ground for rapid access. The Marlin's ammo tube must be removed and additional rounds dumped in from he knitting needle. Many folks use aluminum arrows or plastic straws.

Fully loaded rotary mags are conveniently stored in speed loader pouches worn on one's belt or stored in the jacket pocket. They are changed in the blink of an eye.

In a perfect world, the Marlin 60 would have a rotary mag. :)
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I won't say that the rotary is the best idea ever but I will say that for me a detachable mag is a must. Beyond that I do like the flush fit 10 rd and if I must have one hang down why not have it be a fairly robust 25 rd like that of the ruger.
I won't say that either the Marlin or CZ is more or less superior but in 40 or so yrs that I have owned a 10/22 I can honestly say I have never needed one more accurate and while I have not shot 22 competitively I have hunted and take small game well over 100yds and my original gun is still chugging along after only God knows how many thousands of rounds without a single repair.
There are many ways in which to judge a gun and many peoples different needs to factor in before one can say it is the only one they would ever need.
 
To meet your stated desires the CZ 452 is unbeatable until you get into match grade rifles.:)
 
I own several .22's including a modified 10/22. It is accurate out of the box but doesn't come close to either of my CZ s. out of the box, every CZ 452 or 455 is going to be very accurate. You may have to check for free float or tinker a little with the trigger or not. But you won't have so much the luck of the draw like a Savage or Marlin. Check actual competition shooters. They vote CZ. But the new rifles are all pretty good and might be fine for your needs. A buddy shoots coyotes with a .17 HMR. I don't know how ethical that is. I would use a .22 mag.
 
It depends on what kind of target practice and hunting you plan on doing.

If you need to print small groups on paper and get head shots on squirrels, the the bolt gun is better for your needs.

But if you plan on shooting soda cans at 50 - 100 yards and shooting rats in the barn, then the 10/22 is hard to beat right out of the box.
 
Statistically you are going to hear a lot of people swear by their 10/22. It is, after all, the most popular .22LR rifle and has been for a long time. But being very popular doesn't make it better. It's just popular. Probably because it's a lot of performance for the price, over time it has built a great ecosystem of parts and upgrades to turn it in to the gun or your choice. But again, none of these things make it 'better'.
The CZ is a fine rifle. Not as popular - too expensive for that, bolt operated which is not in as much demand, and it's not been around as long as the 10/22 meaning it won't have a big ecosystem of add-on's and mods. But it is a very fine rifle. If you have the money, are comfortable with the trade-offs of a bolt action, and plan to keep it as is, it's hard to imagine finding something better.
B
 
Choosing between a CZ bolt-action and a 10/22 is choosing between accuracy and rate-of-fire, really. The CZ will almost certainly be more accurate out-of-the-box, although a 10/22 can be accurized to a fairly high degree if you want to put money into it. A semi-auto is a lot of fun to plink with, but if you intend to go for any serious accuracy, it's going to cost you.

It all depends on what you want the rifle for.
 
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Open sights all the way! CZ's are shootin' guns. I shot a 237 at my first Appleseed with this thing. It's taken more ground squirrels than I can count.


cz_452-1_zpsd4c9636f.jpg
 
Among my many 22s are some old bolt actions, tube feds, mag feds etc. They include Mossbergs, Winchesters, Marlins, Brownings, Savage/Stevens, Remingtons etc etc. I think people automatically think they need to get a new rifle and forget that 22s have been around for a more than a century. They also tend to forget that the old classic wood and steel rifles are very accurate and well made compared to some of the plastic parts guns made today.

The point is there are some, beautiful old 22s laying around forgotten in some pawn shop, out of the way gun shop or otherwise just waiting for someone to appreciate them again. Do some homework and think about going old school.
 
For target practice and small game, the .22 Long Rifle is great, but I would not recommend it for coyote hunting.
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For taking a chance shot at one in the yard? Yes. For actually hunting them? No
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I would never hunt coyote with it, regardless of accuracy. It has insufficient power.
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Ditto...

For the price that some 10/22's are bringing these days compared to a CZ Trainer or Basic, it's almost just a matter of deciding if you want a semi auto or a bolt action and how important that extra degree of accuracy is to you. For 90% of all 22 "jobs," a stock 10/22 is going to be just fine. However, for more precise plinking, hunting and entry level matches the CZ is going to have a definite advantage. CZ accuracy isn't internet hype. At the local, club level, rimfire events that I have attended the CZ's and Savages seem to lead the pack from a performance vs. cost standpoint. What I wouldn't recommend is buying a 10/22 with the idea of replacing all the parts to try and make it into something else. While you can make a 10/22 very accurate, you will be hard pressed to make it as accurate as other rifles available for similar amounts of money spent.

If you're really more interested in hunting coyotes than in target shooting with a 22, you might consider dividing up your $700, spending $150-250 on a serviceable, 22 rifle for plinking and small game and spending the rest on a coyote rifle. If you shop around a little you can find a new or used .22 Hornet, 222, 223 or 22-250 for the remainder of your budget that will do a far better job on coyotes than any 22LR.
___________________________
4 CZ's and counting...
 
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JamesHarrison1212 said:
Hi, I am a newby to guns and I am wanting to get a good .22 calibre rifle. I am most likely going to put a scope on it as well. I would like an accurate, durable, reliable gun.
The purpose of the gun is going to be for target practice, small game, and coyote hunting.
I am trying to decide between bolt and semi-auto rifle.
I have been looking at the CZ 452 I think this is a very good gun, everyone keeps telling me to get the ruger 10/22 but feel it is not that great a gun until you do mods to this gun. I would like a gun that is going to be great right out of the box.
I would really appreciate getting an opinon on what to get I feel my top price would be about $700 with a scope. So about $550 to $600 tops for the gun.
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James, here's my story on these two guns.

I have a number of guns, and have been a shooter and gun enthusiast since I was about 6 years old. I have a 1966 model 10/22 which is probably the gun that I'm most emotionally or sentimentally attached to of any gun that I have. More rounds through it, more experiences with it - childhood and adult - and it's just a gun that I would never voluntarily give up. In addition to all else, it is a great shooter, very accurate.

In early 2012 I was doing some homework on what gun to buy as my oldest son's first rifle. After stumbling onto rimfirecentral.com (foremost a 10/22 site, but also has forums for just about any rimfire you can name) and reading a lot of the forums I became interested the CZ 452. In March 2012 I bought a 452 FS in .22 LR. In May we took the 452 and the 10/22 with us to the family farm where we fired about 1500 rounds over 4 or 5 days there. My son (8 years old) liked both guns, but really liked the 10/22 because of the semi-automatic action and the fact that the smaller 10/22 fit him at the time a little bit better. The 10/22 was a well-known gun for me of course, but I really loved the CZ and couldn't stop shooting it. Now, it's a year later and I've added three more 452s (American, Trainer, Scout), a CZ 511 semi-auto, a Brno Model 1 (forerunner to the 452 Military Trainer), a Brno Model 3 (heavy target gun based on the Model 1 action), a BRNO 611 semi-auto .22 Magnum, and three CZ centerfires. And I'm not unusual at all. It's a running joke on the CZ/BRNO forum at rimfirecentral that one CZ usually leads to many, an affliction known there as CZ-itus. A lot of those guys have a number of much higher priced, higher end guns, but really love the CZs for actual shooting.

I highly recommend you try a CZ 452. There is virtually no chance that you won't like the gun. It may or may not be your favorite that you ever own, but there's little chance that you won't like it. You can get a 10/22 next if you're still interested.
 
I agree with I6turbo. As far as vintage guns goes, some are great shooters. I have a Winchester 74 SA that shoots really well but it took alot of parts scrounging and tinkering to repair. Same with a Vintage Marlin and Mossberg. Great shooters but needed good cleaning, parts replacement and repair. And they are accurate but not as accurate as the CZ's I own. But close enough that a good one would be a good buy if cheaper and was in mint condition.
 
I don't personally consider the 10-22 to be a "good to go out of the box" rifle by any means for the simple reason that the rear sight is as close to useless as any so-called engineer has ever achieved, thus it at least requires the purchase of useful sighting equipment. Keeping that in mind they are still a good value..... just not ready for prime-time out of the box.;)

Lots of good choices to be had, many recommended in this thread.:D
 
Statistically you are going to hear a lot of people swear by their 10/22. It is, after all, the most popular .22LR rifle and has been for a long time.
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That just is not true. The 10/22 has never been the most popular .22LR. Marlin 60's have doubled their sales from the very beginning of both back in the early 60's. The last count I saw was 12 million Model 60's sold vs. 5 million 10/22's sold. Marlins are cheaper, more accurate and more dependable and they don't have that round mag.

I don't often mention this because it just starts problems. I saw a poll about the most overrated rifle in history. The 10/22 won by a big margin (or lost depending on your point of view - it was the most overrated rifle ever according to the poll).

Again I don't hate Rugers. But I know they aren't the most popular .22LR ever. It's not even close. It's claims like those that keep me from ever buying one. The hype surrounding them is just too much for me.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/marlin/96060-marlin-60-50th-anniversary-model.html
 
James;

You should have been able to make up your mind by now. So whattaya gonna buy?

900F
 
CB900F said:
James;

You should have been able to make up your mind by now. So whattaya gonna buy?

900F
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Alas, the original posters only thread was this one on 07 April 2013 and it looks like he never returned. :(

However, it has proven to be an interesting thread with some good information shared. :)

Ron
 
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