Senator to propose bill regulating black powder in wake of Boston Massacre

gdcpony said:

http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=341435&

Need I say more? As a reloader this will hit me harder than anything else they have introduced, but I am also looking at how this will affect muzzleloading, and ammo manufacturing as well.

...

Click to expand...

Doesn't government at any and every level not have anything better to do? I hate the "Pass a new law after each and every already illegal event" mentality. The Boston Marathon acts were already illegal as they resulted in intentional deaths. The Newtown actions were already illegal as well. Does a new law help by making it "more illegal"? It is not like they would have trouble finding some law to charge the perpetrators with (should they live). If they want something to act on, try limiting the conditions in which a person can claim "not guilty by reason of insanity".

Plus more specific to Boston, black powder can be made at home (the most difficult ingredient to find being saltpeter).

chuck

hso said:

Neither gasoline nor smokeless powder are explosives. Black powder, OTOH, is a Division 1.1 explosive.

Click to expand...

I was being tongue in cheek, but smokeless powder does fall under Division 1.3, IIRC.

Since what I've heard of the Lautenberg proposal covers "explosive powder", ostensibly a broad usage could extend to “black powder” (1.1), “smokeless powder” (1.3) and “black powder substitute” (1.?).

Read the act completely. There is a line in it about making it illegal to produce black powder yourself. Only way they would know is if the commercial makers put markers in theirs. He tires to get the same thing passed in 2003.


Brought to you by TapaTalk

The Democrats are stuck on stupid.

Black power is a combination of Potassium Nitrate, Sulfur, and Charcoal is specific percentage.

Proportions by weight are 75% potassium nitrate (known as saltpeter or saltpetre), 15% softwood charcoal, and 10% sulfur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

Just ground up in a non-sparking container (for obvious reasons.)

Anyone can make it. The stupid Democrats are just in gun control mode and they feel just some kind of legislation, no matter how inane, will show they 'care'.

For them, the idea of registering pressure cookers also sounds like 'common sense' legislation.

Deaf

For them, the idea of registering pressure cookers also sounds like 'common sense' legislation.

Click to expand...

Would be at least as effective!

The one who was a naturalized citizen would likely have passed any background checks!

dragon813gt said:

Read the act completely. There is a line in it about making it illegal to produce black powder yourself. Only way they would know is if the commercial makers put markers in theirs. He tires to get the same thing passed in 2003.

Click to expand...

It's illegal to make meth to, but they do it all the time. Illegal to print your own money, but it's done to. Illegal to make your own booze and sell it (bootlegging) but that is also done alot.

Nothing, but nothing, will stop a terrorist from making bombs. Heck the Columbine killers had propane bombs (will it be illegal to have a outdoor BBQ with propane tank to?) They only failed to make them go off due to their super ignorance. The two in Boston were not ignorant (incredibly stupid but not ignorant on how to make their bombs.)

If they want to stop such killers, deport those who they have found favor terrorist organizations (as these two did), and monitor known groups who favor them (and that means alot of Muslim groups here in the U.S.)

The FBI knew Hasan had extremist ties and he favored them. They IGNORED IT. The FBI knew these two Boston brothers had extremist ties and they favored them. The FBI IGNORED IT. Well it's time to start not ignoring them, even if they also favor Democrats (I've never seen a Democrat politician ignore votes no matter where they came from, even if they voted twice.)

Deaf

Deaf Smith said:

It's illegal to make meth to, but they do it all the time. Illegal to print your own money, but it's done to. Illegal to make your own booze and sell it (bootlegging) but that is also done alot.

Click to expand...

I get all that. But right now it's not illegal for me to make black powder. This act will make it illegal and turn me into a criminal if I do. I know it won't stop a criminal from making it. So all it does is restrict me more. This is one of the points you need to hammer home to your representatives.



Brought to you by TapaTalk

The sad part of this whole scenario when it comes to congress is that the fools which "we the people" elect actually believe that they are doing us a favor by putting ideas like this one out there. No "Law" is going to effect what an "Outlaw" intends to do if they have enough determination. I heard one of our corrupt politicians a few weeks ago make the statement that their job was to write laws, I believe it was Pelosi. What a crock!! Their job is to serve "Us", the American citizens not pass laws which they themselves have never even read.

It saddens me to see what our country is turning into. I'm sure that Kruschev is watching from above (or below) grinning to himself at his prophecy coming to fruition.

This one could be worse because they could amend it to include smokeless powder too. This would make it include factory ammo which contains it. They don't specify the quantity either, how much is considered a large amount?

In the actual legislation he's proposing they include smokeless powder also.

I was reminded of this, this morning:
http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/plank/111266/franklin-roosevelt-the-father-gun-control#
Adam Winkler, "Franklin Roosevelt: The Father of Gun Control", The New Republic, 19 Dec 2012.

Leftie politic/social commentary magazine, "moderate" gun control writer: gun control has been an unfinished part of the FDR legacy for Democrats for almost 80 years; the push for a national Sullivan Act to tax and register guns and restrict ownership created the NRA ILA as a modern gun lobby.

The article is post Newtown, but pre the failure to pass the AWB II, big clip ban and universal BG check. I think they are getting desperate to fulfill FDR's dream.

SuperNaut said:

Can't these idiots do anything other than propose bans?!?

Click to expand...

That's what they do. Every last one of these bogus gun grabbing schemes in the past 45 years has come from the Democrats/liberals/progressives...or whatever name they're trying to hide behind now.
Bottom line, a vote for any Democrat is a vote against the 2A.

When do they figure out that you can't ban everything that can be used for multiple purposes. Chem bombs can do the same thing with Diesel Fuel & fertilizer, Ammonia, Drano, and on and on. Why do they always think that by banning one thing that ten minutes later someone will use something else?
Gun Powder has been here for a thousand years, and because some jerk put it in a pressure cooker, now it's dangerous? You can use a thousand different things to cause tragedy, it's education and mental health that prevent it, not trying to ban half the things that people use everyday. Anyone with a science book or an internet connection can make a damaging device.
Dynamite is available all over the country, do they really think that they can ban our way out of these events.

FWIW, the video of at least one of the explosions had a large white cloud rising out of the explosion site. That would be consistent with black powder (as opposed to smokeless powder).

Seems like the antis are fixated on technologies as opposed to actions.

FWIW, the video of at least one of the explosions had a large white cloud rising out of the explosion site. That would be consistent with black powder (as opposed to smokeless powder).

Click to expand...

The fireballs of those bombs were not the right color for black powder. The fireball color is consistent with homemade explosives containing sugar or other organic fuel, as are the clouds of white smoke. Those homemade explosives require a detonator. Blasting caps are hard to come by. The bombs may have used TATP as a detonator. TATP will detonate when exposed to heat (a light bulb filament will do it") or shock.

One federal law enforcement source told CNN's Deborah Feyerick the devices contained "low-velocity improvised explosive mixture -- perhaps flash-powder or sugar chlorate mixture likely packed with nails or shrapnel."

An explosives expert told CNN the yellowness of the flame probably came from carbon or some organic fuel such as sugar that contains it. The expert, who is frequently consulted by the FBI and other government agencies, said the white smoke made it "unlikely that a military-grade high explosive, such as those used in shells and bombs, which is usually grey or black, was used."

Click to expand...

InkEd said:

This one could be worse because they could amend it to include smokeless powder too. This would make it include factory ammo which contains it. They don't specify the quantity either, how much is considered a large amount?

Click to expand...

Go back and read the OP. Everything I have read about this bill is that it already includes smokeless powder and both smokeless and black powder would require a BG check to buy in ANY quantity.

So, concievably, his would require BG checks to buy just one round of .22LR.

also police notification on buying nails, beauty products, ball bearings,

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/rep...bearings-beauty-products-should-notify-police

the East Coast politicians, aided by the gang from Chicago and California are in full police state mode. I don't think the country is going to survive much longer.

I am assuming this has been proposed because of the Boston bombings....

Even assuming the suspects used black powder in their bombs... they would have had to obtain it illegally because you need an FID card to buy/ posses black/ smokeless powder in MA.....so this law wouldn't have prevented the bombings from happening....

What a shocker I know, who would have thought that someone who is willing to bomb a city is not afraid to break the law to buy gunpowder.....

After Boston, the ban black powder drum beat begins

Some politicians are now advocating for the outright ban on black powder and substitutes, others are wanting a background check for the purchase of any gun powder.

I knew the moment I saw the white smoke from the low pressure bombs, this would be forthcoming.

EDIT: threads merged

hang fire said:

Some politicians are now advocating for the outright ban on black powder and substitutes, others are wanting a background check for the purchase of any gun powder.

I knew the moment I saw the white smoke from the low pressure bombs, this would be forthcoming.

Click to expand...

Also Bloomberg is saying outright that the constitution will have to change as well.


"Bloomberg Says Interpretation of Constitution Will ‘Have to Change’ After Boston Bombing"

http://politicker.com/2013/04/bloom...tion-of-the-constitution-will-have-to-change/

“The people who are worried about privacy have a legitimate worry,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a press conference in Midtown. “But we live in a complex word where you’re going to have to have a level of security greater than you did back in the olden days, if you will. And our laws and our interpretation of the Constitution, I think, have to change.”

He also saying about adding more cameras, then he goes on with his mantra about gun laws and saving the children. But do check out the readers comments at the end of the article.


.

Good luck with that, Bloomie. Not happening here.

Gee, potassium nitrate 78%, charcoal 13%, sulpher 9%. Ban all that?

swalton1943 said:

Gee, potassium nitrate 78%, charcoal 13%, sulpher 9%. Ban all that?

Click to expand...

A black powder purist will even make his own charcoal. http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/bp_menu.html This isn't brain surgery -- except to politicians.

But I imagine that even if black powder needs a FID in Massachusetts, it would have been fairly easy for the brothers Tsarnaev to drive to New Hampshire, and fill up their trunk with all the black powder that they could carry.

Lautenberg discovered he wasn't running again in 2014 when he found that Newark Mayor Cory Booker wanted the job by reading the newspapers. He will have about zero influence between now and 2014 when he's retiring. His bill is unlikely to see the light of day in the Senate, never mind in the House.

So, HAS it been stated definitively exactly WHAT explosive was used? Their crime lab should have had that ID'd within hours. You don't suppose that information is being witheld to further some agenda, hmmm? Nah, they wouldn't do that.....

And control the purchase of nails and BB's, they'll just use screws, nuts and bolts, scrap metal, small car parts....anything small and hard would work. Even garden/driveway stones.