Safety

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Alot of it depends what you use the gun for. Police may be different than casual user. Hiker different then bear hunter.

I like safeties, but hate it when I try to fire on a pesky gopher and I forgot to turn off the safety. Uggg. :banghead:
 
2 sides to every debate. It all depends on what "you" prefer. It's that simple.
 
I like having a safety, as long as it's not mandatory to use it.
For instance, my old S&W 469. It had a slide-mounted safety (not my choice) that dropped the hammer. Remove it and it's into DA mode. So I carried it with the safety off, stored it and transported it with it on. My plinkers tend to have them.
I demand a safety on a gun with a light trigger, but that usually means SA and I prefer my DA anyway. My current carry guns, a Taurus 85 and a CZ PCR, don't have them, and it just feels right.
Overall, yes, it depends on the design. I just prefer designs that don't have or require them. It's just one more possible distraction or something else to snag.
 
Some people think of the safety failing in the sense that the gun might fire "accidentally" (meaning, usually, due to human stupidity). It can also fail the "other" way ... the gun won't fire when needed, and so becomes useless. That seems to be your uncle's worry. He might have a macho-man infallibility complex; then again, he might just be a lot more knowledgeable and experienced with guns than you realize, and lack the patience and/or verbal skills to explain that to your full understanding and satisfaction. It could be a bit of both, I suppose.

Personally, ALL of my guns have some kind of safety mechanism; it's the RARE modern firearm that has NONE. Most of mine however, have omly the automatic internal sort that renders the gun fumble resistant (nothing is "drop proof"- never trust a mechanical safety 100% either way- that may be your uncle's point).

These internal safeties are designed to DISENGAGE WHEN THE TRIGGER IS PULLED. The gun is safe unless I MEAN IT NOT TO BE (in which case the safety is unwanted) or unless I'm a being a COMPLETE FOOL at the time (in which case, being fool enough to point a loaded gun at my foot with my finger on the trigger, the safety is likely inadequate to protect me from my own foolishness. They aren't, after all, "fool proof").
 
Certaindeaf said:
You know what a rifle is? Most all of them have a "safety". A gun is a gun, unless it's your uncle preaching?
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I do know what a rifle is but you're always being sarcastic so i wasnt sure. It was a "wonky" statement..hehehehehehe
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I think it's personal preference. Both of my carry guns have decockers but no manual safety I like the simplicity of pull, point , shoot

And yes you can turn of the green light in your user CP go to user options, edit options and it will give you the option of being "invisible"
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thx. didnt see that. ive been accused by my dr of having adhd
 
Alizard said:
With good reason. Users often forget to release the safety in a life threat situation and that means they are dead. I never forget a security camera video of a jewelry store where a robber with a revo comes in. The owner pulls an auto and starts yanking the trigger but the safety is on. The perp shoots the owner and he goes down. Then the perp picks up the auto and takes it with him.
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OMG thats awful. And when i first started reading the sentence i was thinking "who would forget to disengage the safety" but i guess anything can happen
 
Magazine disconnect is a big nono
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I can easily understand the grip safety, but why would i not have a mag in my gun and need to shoot? i guess dropping one reloading maybe
 
12many said:
Alot of it depends what you use the gun for. Police may be different than casual user. Hiker different then bear hunter.

I like safeties, but hate it when I try to fire on a pesky gopher and I forgot to turn off the safety. Uggg. :banghead:
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good point
 
quite frankly, i think safeties are a liability....

if you cant carry/ handle/ transport/ ect. your gun in a matter that wont pull the trigger, do not keep a round in the chamber.

as an engineer, there is one thing ive learned about any sort of mechanical safety device......it will always fail right when you dont need it to.

i dont want to be in a situation where i need to take a shot, and my gun wont fire because the safety was bumped on.
 
then again, he might just be a lot more knowledgeable and experienced with guns than you realize, and lack the patience and/or verbal skills to explain that to your full understanding and satisfaction
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yes ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I ask him a bazillion questions. he's usually still answering the last one when i get to the next one. and he is a cop who has been stabbed and shot at, so i shouldnt have jumped to that conclusion (macho)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Certaindeaf
Anybody that has a Browning Hi-Power knows how to use a punch. true story

Care to elaborate?
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You can easily remove the magazine safety with a few, well placed punches. I'm sure that's what he meant.
 
m-cameron said:
quite frankly, i think safeties are a liability....
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What kind of handgun do you carry that doesn't have a safety? Only one I can think of offhand would be a cocked, original-pattern (no transfer bar) Colt-type single action.
 
What kind of handgun do you carry that doesn't have a safety? Only one I can think of offhand would be a cocked, original-pattern (no transfer bar) Colt-type single action.
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Ruger SP101........while it may be a safety feature, i dont really view a transfer bar as a traditional 'safety', as it really cant be actuated on and off.
 
Safety or No safety is not a mechanical issue to me.
It's a training and familiarization issue.

How many AR or AK owners run around saying, "This sucks. I wish my rifle did NOT have a safety?" Not many I'll bet.

If you are carrying a handgun that you intend to defend your life with...and it has a safety on it....
TRAIN with it.
If you don't, and you have a problem later on... You cannot blame the Safety when you should be blaming "yourself" instead.
 
I'm entirely comfortable with frame-mounted safeties on handguns, such as those on the 1911 and Browning Hi-Power.

I detest [strike]frame[/strike] slide-mounted safeties.

The idea that one of those - a frame-mounted safety - could be turned on by accident reflects a lack of training or familiarity with the way those work and should be used.

Anyway, if you don't want one, don't have a gun that has one. But when it comes to 1911s and Hi-Powers, don't suggest its a liability to me because you won't take the time to train with it and learn how to manage that gun properly.

We call that projection. Yes, its true you can't trust yourself to manage that safety properly. Its also true I can trust myself to make one shoot when I want it to, even under stress.
 
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colonel kernel said:
I can easily understand the grip safety, but why would i not have a mag in my gun and need to shoot? i guess dropping one reloading maybe
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Mag disconnect safety is something many law enforcement agencies want.

Police have to get close and personal with suspects, to search them, to question them, to cuff them. If a suspect grabs the officers gun, when the officer is not expecting it, in the struggle, the officer can drop the magazine and prevent the gun from being operable.

Those of us who are not police officers, preferably are not getting close and personal with those who wish to do us harm.


TRAINING is the key. If you don't have a manual safety, train to keep the gun safe. If you have a manual safety, train to disengage it when you need to fire your gun.


Bullfrog Ken, I suspect that you mean you detest "SLIDE" mounted safeties
 
My experience began with a break barrel rifle shooting pellets. Then a Ruger 10/22 and a Remington 700 in 30-06. I always used the safety and disengaged when ready to shoot starting from the very beginning. Although along the way you realize that if you completely follow gun safety rules, the safeties aren't really needed.

Then came the 870 in 12 gauge and again I always used the safety. Well I say always but I follow the rules of gun safety so much that I guess sometimes I wouldn't use the rifle/shotgun safety.

I had known for years that I would start handgun ownership with a revolver for concealed carry, so it was gonna be a snubbie and of course they don't have safeties. Got a j frame s&w. From the very get go, as with any gun, I would keep my finger on the frame until I was ready to shoot. It didn't bother me at all that it doesn't have a safety, but I remember thinking to myself several times early on that it was different. However, as I said earlier, I knew what I was getting into. I was very happy with my revolver. Another 38 special revolver, this time in a larger frame, came into my collection and I am glad it doesn't have a safety.

This past fall I decided it was time to add a semi-auto to carry and use in IDPA. I knew I would be searching for a gun with no slide safety. Turns out I didn't want a grip safety either, or a magazine disconnect safety once I thought about it. The full size m&p9 without the safeties became mine in November. Finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot and gun pointed in a safe direction at all times, or holstered as I said before, and I don't see how a person can go wrong.

I think that if I am going to need to deploy a handgun in 1 second flat to avoid serious injury to myself then I don't want a safety on it. The only quality we must have is a gun that doesn't fire on its own or when dropped accidentally.
 
Mostly it is knee jerk reaction by people whose gun knowledge comes from the internet. I love guns with redundant safeties so I can choose to use them or not. Most of my guns have hammers and safeties. Many will say that it is possible that your safety can engage without you knowing it. It is also possible that Pam Anderson will marry me and we will honeymoon in my yacht in Monte Carlo. A lot of things are possible but unlikely.
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While YOU may like (or need to have) all types of safeties, berating others who do not is rather childish and immature, not very High Road.

I would venture my gun knowledge is as good, and probably better, than yours or other keyboard commandos - and none of it came from the idiotweb.

NONE of my HD/SD handguns have a safety - that includes revolvers and semis from snubs to Glocks to HKs

NONE of my shotguns have an automatic safety, even my field guns, never needed one, and still don't. I'll put the safety on if I should so desire
 
Magazine safeties are a design defect in my opinion, and any gun with one should be sent back to the factory for "repair." I have two guns with mag safeties and I hate that "feature." That's just me, though.
 
HOOfan_1 said:
Mag disconnect safety is something many law enforcement agencies want.

Police have to get close and personal with suspects, to search them, to question them, to cuff them. If a suspect grabs the officers gun, when the officer is not expecting it, in the struggle, the officer can drop the magazine and prevent the gun from being operable.

Those of us who are not police officers, preferably are not getting close and personal with those who wish to do us harm.


TRAINING is the key. If you don't have a manual safety, train to keep the gun safe. If you have a manual safety, train to disengage it when you need to fire your gun.


Bullfrog Ken, I suspect that you mean you detest "SLIDE" mounted safeties
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thanks for answering my question although im not sure i will never be grappling with anyone in a self defense situation-makes some sense to me ya know...really cant see the drawback is what im trying to say i guess. so maybe it comes down to this when choosing :do i have more of a chance of getting up close and personal w someone and needing to drop my mag or more of a chance that im going to need to fire w no clip in a firefight?
 
230RN said:
Magazine safeties are a design defect in my opinion, and any gun with one should be sent back to the factory for "repair." I have two guns with mag safeties and I hate that "feature." That's just me, though.
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hehehe
 
you can choose to just not use the thumb safety if you have one
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For some designs, I'm sure this is true. However, if you carry a 1911, Carrying Condtion 0 is not considered as safe as carrying Condition 1.

The idea is to practice with your carry weapon's manual of arms until it becomes second nature.

I have a Ruger SBH in .44 Magnum, but it isn't my choice for concealed carry. And I don't have a "mix" of different types of semi-auto handguns.

For those who practice with the 1911, the thumb safety is swept off during the presentation, before the sights are aligned. It isn't a step that has to be remembered. It becomes part of "muscle memory" (which just means you do it all the time, every time, so it becomes habit.)

For those who practice with different designs, other things may be important. For example, DA/SA semiautos may have a long initial trigger pull which must be mastered through practice.

The concern about the magazine safety has been answered by an earlier post - it isn't necessary unless you are concerned about gun retention during a wrestling match. LEO's may have to engage in this sort of behavior in the normal course of their duty, but private citizens don't make arrests.

Of course, there are those who argue that the magazine safety somehow makes a gun "safer" because it handles the situation where the magazine is dropped and the user assumes the gun is unloaded.

For this situation, I refer them to the Four Rules...
 
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