Californias AB 711 Lead Ammo Ban

Lead ammo is already severely restricted here. There are many troubling bills going through our legislature that will set disturbing precedence if they do not get overturned in court. Hopefully they do not get passed at all, but I have very little faith in the legislature of this state. Many of the reps I contacted did not even bother to respond back.

California and New York seem to have the most extreme anti gun laws in the country. of course, personally, i think they have the largest congregation of eccentric people in the world (N.Y.C. & the greater L.A. area). so i guess that should not be to surprising. i have to feel sorry for the people of those states that stay because of family, and are forced into ridiculous, extremist anti-gun laws that are not necessarily what the majority of the state wants.

Bruno you are correct about the huge number of foreigners in California and NY who are scared of guns contributes to the problem.

Make every effort to leave that state. It took us 20 years, but we found
a home with like minded people here in Idaho. LIFE IS GOOD!!!

The truly unfortunate and often unspoken thing about California is that it is the state to which many other states look as a model. The danger is always that California is generally a glimpse of the future of the rest of America, unless the public wakes up.

Sorry about that guys...silver lining, more ammo for the rest of us to buy

I think it used to be that Cali was the forerunner in setting the standard for new laws. EPA laws and such in the past always started in Cali. I am not so sure that is true anymore. I think more states are stopping and taking at look at costs and not was willing to follow the leader anymore. That being said, the lead ban would not surprise me to be a federal EPA ban and that would get us all screwed.

This annoys me. What kind if environmental impact does a 180 grain bullet make when shot at a mobile 4 legged creature? I can see banning lead shot at a duck pond but this is ridiculous.

Some of the biggest problems I have with bills like this is the misinformation. Lead from bullets is much different on the environment then lead from paint. Even if ingested. There are so many places that are too hard to trace lead too that blaming it on bullets is just an easy out.

And even though it is implied for hunting how will this effect the self defense aspent. Expecially in areas that don't allow hollow point or ammo of that type. And I believe they are not just talking about exposed lead bullets. Even lead core bullets are affected to if I understand it correctly.

The problem is that the EPA...like the IRS...is becoming more powerful and out of control, and none of its officers are elected. They can do pretty much as they please as long as they can show a reasonable suspicion...not proof...a suspicion...that a substance or an activity presents a "danger" to the environment. I've believed for years that the EPA will emerge to become one of the main tools of tyranny.

Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?

firesky101 said:

Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?

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Moreover, 99% of lead bullets pass through the animal. The condors can't be chasing all the lead bullets lodged in trees down. This is nothing but another backhanded method of gun control.

The problem with the lead ban is once it is passed, ammo makers will try and rape hunters by charging outrageous prices for "non-lead" hunting ammo. Just like they did back when steel shot became required. Around here, now that DDT was outlawed and the eagles made a huge comeback, they too will feed on carrion, and there has been shown to be an increase in the lead levels in their blood also. Again....lead used in hunting ammo is being blamed. While whether or not lead in hunting ammo is really to blame, with today's technology, it's hard to imagine we can't find a affordable replacement for lead.

guitartguy said:

Make every effort to leave that state. It took us 20 years, but we found
a home with like minded people here in Idaho. LIFE IS GOOD!!!

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That sounds good, but I have found people from ****-forn-ia within a few years revert back to wanting the very same things which they left CA to avoid.

The ex California anti 2nd rats pouring into AZ are working 24/7 to turn this state into a CA clone hell hole.

ammo makers will try and rape hunters by charging outrageous prices for "non-lead" hunting ammo

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It's not entirely their fault; tungsten is more expensive than steel, after all. There is also a limited market, since only a tiny fraction of shot gets thrown at birds (as opposed to clays/tin cans). The real purpose of this new ban is simply to drive up prices. An obvious directive to a higher-priced solution, with dubious benefit aside. Is there even any evidence of lead from firearms causing harm to man or nature in any quantity? Was there any when lead shot was banned (and have lead levels in fowl returned to ambient?) Or is this merely another "so long as it makes the activity more onerous" law (i.e. an infringement)?

I thought this nonsense was settled in the 70's when Congress forbade the EPA from banning lead in ammunition. I guess we're gonna see that raise its ugly head again, seeing how political its goals become (further evidence that agency should have never existed under our constitutional system).

TCB

1911Tuner said:

The problem is that the EPA...like the IRS...is becoming more powerful and out of control, and none of its officers are elected. They can do pretty much as they please as long as they can show a reasonable suspicion...not proof...a suspicion...that a substance or an activity presents a "danger" to the environment. I've believed for years that the EPA will emerge to become one of the main tools of tyranny.

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Couldn't agree more. Why is the main enforcer of obamacare the IRS? I'll tell you why, no accountability. Easier to pass the buck.

How true about the "immigrants" Bruno.

Yes it is bullets with any lead. Here is their (IMO) flawed argument. Lead levels are increasing in the endangered carrion eater called the California Condor. The lawmakers say this is due to ingestion of lead in gut piles from hunters bullets. Here is my problem with it, lead levels have also increased in all the condors in captivity, so are we feeding captive condors lead bullets?

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Just curious, but are captive condors allowed to fly out in the wild or kept in enclosures? Because if the latter is true, there might be lead contamination in the food and water they are being fed.

I believe the fact that both states have a large number of immigrants plays directly into the mindset.

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How true about the "immigrants" Bruno.

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I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either immigrants or the descendants of immigrants.

I think that would more appropriately be phrased:

I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either LEGAL immigrants or the American born descendants of immigrants.

I would expect that everyone on this forum, barring Native Americans, are either LEGAL immigrants or the American born descendants of immigrants.

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Valid point.

Enough bashing of the immigrants --we just aren't doing our jobs and converting them to our side well enough. My ancestors hail from decidedly anti individualist Europe, but we learned to do things the right way once we got here.

TCB