Holsters that do not cover the trigger

9mmepiphany · Jun 7, 2013

Archaic Weapon said:
It lets you have the finger at or in the trigger guard at the point of draw, which allows you to get the pistol into play faster, with less movement.

I meant to address this earlier.

It 1) doesn't put the pistol into play any faster and 2) the amount of movement is exactly the same.

I'll address the second point first. At some point in the presentation, the finger must move from being off the trigger to being on the trigger. I'm not sure how you are seeing less movement if it goes on the trigger before it is pointed at the target.

It is much safer to access the trigger after the muzzle has been rotated from the vertical to the horizontal. It must be rotated before a shot should be fired. If the finger is placed on the trigger after, or during, the rotation, how is it any slower. If you extend the gun before firing the first shot, there is plenty of time between Position 3 and Position 4 (in a 4 step draw) to access the trigger.

During testing in the late 60s, they found that there was no difference between the times, to the first accurate shot, from a holster, between a DA revolver, DA/SA pistol or SAO pistol

Vern Humphrey · Jun 7, 2013

It is much safer to access the trigger after the muzzle has been rotated from the vertical to the horizontal.

As "No Toes" Lewis found out -- the hard way.

rcmodel · Jun 7, 2013

During testing in the late 60s, they found that there was no difference between the times, to the first accurate shot, from a holster, between a DA revolver, DA/SA pistol or SAO pistol

Exactly who was doing that testing??

The way I recall it, the fastest times ever recorded where being done by the fast draw crowd like Bob Munden, and the guys at Big Bear lake who invented the speed-shooting combat games.

Copper, Jack Weaver, Eldon Carl, Michael Harries, Thell Reed, and a few others were inventing modern combat shooting technique and leather to go with it.

Nobody used a covered trigger holster in those days.

And they beat everyone that came along for speed, and accuracy.

Last I heard, they still all had all their toes when they died too.

rc

9mmepiphany · Jun 7, 2013

rcmodel said:
Exactly who was doing that testing??

You just named them. Cooper wrote about it in Cooper On Handguns

Copper, Jack Weaver, Eldon Carl, Michael Harries, Thell Reed, and a few others were inventing modern combat shooting technique and leather to go with it.

Nobody used a covered trigger holster in those days.

Gee, except for Weaver (with his K-38), these guys sure look like they are wearing holsters which cover the trigger guard (Chapman, Carl, Reed, Cooper, Weaver)

Archaic Weapon · Jun 7, 2013

They aren't. Those are lowered fast draw rigs that sit around the bottom of the cylinder, or would if they were revolvers. They still sit high on a 1911. I have a kydex concealed carry in the same pattern..

Archaic Weapon · Jun 7, 2013

The movement from trigger guard to trigger is an added step, it does change the the grip, specifically, and it's not a problem if you have training in doing it. Finger on the trigger, and finger pulling the trigger on the draw are two different things.

9mmepiphany · Jun 7, 2013

Archaic Weapon said:
They aren't. Those are lowered fast draw rigs that sit around the bottom of the cylinder, or would if they were revolvers. They still sit high on a 1911. I have a kydex concealed carry in the same pattern..

Maybe a picture with the guns holstered

Archaic Weapon · Jun 7, 2013

Interesting. I can see how that would work with a 1911.

CraigC · Jun 7, 2013

The key to speed with those 1911 holsters is that the holster does not come to the back of the triggerguard. So the second finger goes right where it's supposed to. I still don't think people should be quite so afraid of the trigger. You still have to deliberately press it after flicking off the safety.

rcmodel · Jun 7, 2013

And even if they did have an ND every once and a while?

The extreme foreword rake of the holster put the bullet in the ground in front of them.

So they didn't shoot their toe off after all!

rc

Archaic Weapon · Jun 7, 2013

As somebody who has been shot in the foot, I can most definitely say that it had nothing to do with the trigger being pulled exiting the holster.

JRH6856 · Jun 7, 2013

We did things 20 years ago that we didn't do 40 years ago because no one thought of it until 30 years ago. We do things to day that we didn't do 20 years ago because no one thought of it until 10 years ago. And in 10 years, we will probably be doing things someone will come up with tomorrow.

Techniques and equipment evolve. It's a process. Some call it progress. Most of the time it is.

rcmodel · Jun 7, 2013

+1

I had one of those Jeff Cooper inspired, low-cut, steel-lined 1911 speed rigs about 40 years ago.

Never forget the time I fumbled a fast draw and threw a cocked & un-locked 1911 about 20 feet down range by accident. :what:

Dang!
It was all slow motion in flight, like stuck on a railroad track with the train coming.
Like watching a coiled rattlesnake just before you set your foot down on it.

Tumbling end over end with the polished barrel bushing & muzzle glinting in the sun!
Made the hair on my head stand up!
When I still had hair.

But the 1911 grip safety worked as designed, and it didn't go off when it hit the ground and bounced twice.

Thankya, JMB, and the Horse Calvary era Army Ordnance people who insisted on a grip safety!!

rc

Elm Creek Smith · Jul 3, 2013

Flechette said:
I picked up a nice old Interarms holster for a song at a gunshow that looks like it was made for a Walther PPK, but fits my Sig P-230 perfectly. However, its shape has a distinct curve to allow the trigger to be exposed.

It is clearly factory made (not modified by someone).

It has an open bottom and is a thumb break design. The thumb brake does not restrict the hammer from cycling. It could conceivably allow firing the pistol from the holster.

It would block the hammer movement of the gun for which it was designed.

Why would someone design a holster that does not cover the trigger?

Because they aren't Glockities.

My primary carry and holster:

My secondary carry and holster:

What are your questions?

ECS

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.

Old Fuff · Jul 3, 2013

The Walther PP/PPK, SIG P-230 and Smith & Wesson post-1945 revolvers have one thing in common. They cannot be fired unless the trigger is held all of the way back while the cocked hammer falls. In the case of the two mentioned pistols this is true even if the manual safety is in an "off" position. Because of the respective designs, covering the trigger or trigger guard is completely unnecessary.

So far as the revolver is concerned, the above picture shows that the entire handle is exposed so that it can be correctly grasp, while the thumb releases the safety strap and the trigger finger is along the side of the trigger. There is no leather in the way to hinder a fast draw. At this point all one has to do is present (point) the gun, and if necessary pull the trigger and shoot.

brickeyee · Jul 8, 2013

Watch out for the AOW trap if the gun can be fired while still in the holster and it no longer looks like a gun.

Holsters that do not cover the trigger

9mmepiphany

Moderator

Vern Humphrey

Member

rcmodel

Member in memoriam

9mmepiphany

Moderator

Archaic Weapon

member

Archaic Weapon

member

9mmepiphany

Moderator

Archaic Weapon

member

CraigC

Sixgun Nut

rcmodel

Member in memoriam

Archaic Weapon

member

JRH6856

Member

rcmodel

Member in memoriam

Elm Creek Smith

Member

Old Fuff

Member

brickeyee

Member

Similar threads