Enough Elk Gun
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The same brother in law that uses 270 for elk took a great trophy bull this last winter using a bow. I admit that he got within bow range but I would like to add that he and his youngest son went out a half dozen times before season and were in position at 4 am and waited in 10 degree weather for a shot within his capability. My last elk was after scouting for three days and taken at under 50' with a 45-70. It boils down to knowing your equipment and your skill. Come to think of it, it really was my last elk, I am too old to run the hills and pack out an elk anymore.
blindhari
Just a note to H&H: I am not sure it really matters where you hit an elk with a 405 gr 45-70 from Buffalo Bore, just like Texas hog at under 100', it goes right on through. Buffalo Bore ain't cheap but they do seem to be final.
blindhari
Just a note to H&H: I am not sure it really matters where you hit an elk with a 405 gr 45-70 from Buffalo Bore, just like Texas hog at under 100', it goes right on through. Buffalo Bore ain't cheap but they do seem to be final.
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There are a bunch of calibers that'll do that. A hard cast Buffalo Bore round out of a .45-70 is sure enough one of them! I would expect nothing short of full length penetration on a soft critter like an elk with that load out of a .45-70.
I've seen big boar hogs shot with that exact combo at 100 and even pushing 200 yards they sail right through at that range too.
RPRNY
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txcookie
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well I guess bowhunting has ruined me but I dont take less than ideal shots. either its s slight qtring shot or broadside for me. Even on small whitetail with my 30.06 I wait for my shot or letem walk. in other words I dont take shots that could deflect an arrow or have ALOT of animal to go through. I personally feel a regular old 130 core lokt at 200 broadside would do just fine on most any critter in the northen America's. This year I blew through a deer and a couple of good hogs which is by no means an Elk but certainly WAS 12 inches of excellent penetration on some tough pork.
I am not bashing the Magum gang just saying its not needed and has been proven by thousands of riflemen already.
Thanks for all the post
I am not bashing the Magum gang just saying its not needed and has been proven by thousands of riflemen already.
Thanks for all the post
Lj1941
Member
Did Jack O'Connor have premium bullets available to him when he was extoling the virtues of the. 270 Win? I am asking because I am not sure.
Arkansas Paul
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That's true if the animal is standing broadside, but if he's quartering one way or the other, that might not be so accurate. I'm not saying the .270 won't do the job on elk, it certainly will, especially with todays premium bullets. But I don't think anyone would disagree that on quartering shots where 20+ inches of penetration through heavy muscle and bone is needed before the bullet ever even reaches the vitals, a little more umph is not a bad thing. I know a lot of people say that they wouldn't take a quartering shot, but if I'm flying halfway across the country for the hunt of a lifetime, I don't want to be limited to only taking the perfect shot.
if you want to try to think of every possible way the shot could be taken one could justify a 20mm cannon
Outlaw Man
Member
In my opinion, be it elk, deer, triceratops, whatever, the decline of hunting skills and shooting ability has brought on the "need" for bigger, farther shooting cartridges. There was a time when .30-'06 was more than enough for anything in North America, but now you shouldn't even take one deer hunting.
I don't get why people get these .33x ultra super mega magnum cartridges they're really afraid to shoot and cost $12/red (or is that .22 LR, now?), so the only trigger time they get is shooting game or once a year to make sure the scope is still on. Get you a .243 or a .270 and shoot the fool out of that thing. You'll bring in as many or more game than that guy with the sore shoulder.
I don't get why people get these .33x ultra super mega magnum cartridges they're really afraid to shoot and cost $12/red (or is that .22 LR, now?), so the only trigger time they get is shooting game or once a year to make sure the scope is still on. Get you a .243 or a .270 and shoot the fool out of that thing. You'll bring in as many or more game than that guy with the sore shoulder.
SimplyChad
Member
I know its a different class but the 1 elk I have taken was quartering away and I took it with a 45/70. 60ish yards from a 1895G DRT. I have no doubt that a quality 270 will do the deed if you get in close and pick your shot.
Arkansas Paul
Member
.45-70 if loaded correctly offers as much penetration as a .458 Win Mag. It's an absolute beast and a lot of folks forget just how crushing it can be.
Decline in shooting skills has nothing to do with wanting a magnum caliber for longer range shots. I love my .30-06 and my .280 Rem. I don't own a magnum, so I'm not a magnum bandwaggoner. However, I realize that if the range is 300 yds+ that the magnums do offer an advantage in that they are flatter shooting, thus decreasing the estimation of holdover from the equation.
I agree 100% that on the majority of game, elk included, that if you are inside of 300 yds and the animal is broadside, the magnums don't offer much advantage. However some people are capable of shooting game at much longer ranges, and they might actually realize the benefits of a mag.
zonzin
Member
Shot placement. The .270 is fine.
If Jack O'Connor took a slew of Elk with basic 130 grain cup and core bullets, i'm sure that the .270 with today's premium hunting bullets (in either 130, or 150 grain weight) will work just fine 60 years later. Put the bullet in the right place. Only take shots your abilities allow you to take, and dine on Elk steaks while the know it all's on the internets tell you that you need more gun.
Coltdriver
Member
My Grandfather exclusively shot elk with a 270, so did my Father. Anyone that says a 270 is not enough for an Elk is either trying to sell you something or they are uninformed.
gunnysmith
Member
The only rifle I ever used on Elk was a 600 Mohawk 6 mm Rem.
Shots ranged from 60 yds to 275 yds
It was a fine mountain rifle, short and light, and extremely accurate
Shots ranged from 60 yds to 275 yds
It was a fine mountain rifle, short and light, and extremely accurate
Outlaw Man
Member
I'm not arguing the utility of certain magnum cartridges for long range shooting. What I'm saying is it's a decline in hunting skills that forces those longer shots. It's deteriorated shooting skills (and maybe hunting skills) that necessitate more umph on close range shots.
If you can't kill it humanely, wait for a better shot. I realize the rare exception of guys shooting at game 1000+ yards away. If you're really one that's skilled enough to do it, go get your 300 Win Mag and take 'em out.
Maybe it's just a product of being in Arkansas, but most people I know of with those big guns have never taken a shot over 200-250 yards.
If you can't kill it humanely, wait for a better shot. I realize the rare exception of guys shooting at game 1000+ yards away. If you're really one that's skilled enough to do it, go get your 300 Win Mag and take 'em out.
Maybe it's just a product of being in Arkansas, but most people I know of with those big guns have never taken a shot over 200-250 yards.
Lj1941
Member
Karamojo Bell
Since I see Mr Bell's name mentioned here, what calibers did he use to kill all of those elephants? I remember reading his book while I was still in high school- middle 1950's. As I recall he used a. 303 British, 6.5 Manlicher, and 7MM Mauser.I don't think he had any special bullet. The one thing he did have was an uncaney skill for placing his shots in the
brain.That my friends is what it is all about.SHOT
PLACEMENT!
Since I see Mr Bell's name mentioned here, what calibers did he use to kill all of those elephants? I remember reading his book while I was still in high school- middle 1950's. As I recall he used a. 303 British, 6.5 Manlicher, and 7MM Mauser.I don't think he had any special bullet. The one thing he did have was an uncaney skill for placing his shots in the
brain.That my friends is what it is all about.SHOT
PLACEMENT!
Arkansas Paul
Member
That's absolutely correct, and its why I don't own a magnum rifle. The farthest deer I ever killed was 175 yds and the .30-06 bullet landed exactly where the cross hairs were resting. No need for a magnum there. Everything else has been 125 or closer, most closer.
I do have an example of an experience where a magnum didn't help. My brother and I were sitting on a gravel road, (lease road, inside the gate, so perfectly legal) wanting to bag a doe for camp meat and one stepped out. Now if you've never looked at a deer down a long road, distance can be tricky. I estimated the range at 250-275 yds. His 7mm Rem mag was laying across the hood. I helped sight it in, so I knew that with its 3" high at 100 yd zero, I shouldn't have to hold over at all at that distance. I put the crosshairs on her shoulder and touched it off. I saw dust kick up underneath her and she was gone! I stepped it off and it was over 425 yds from where we were to where the bullet impacted.
So even with a magnum, range estimation is key. Obviously I'm not very good at it.
As far as hunting skills, I really don't care about that. I hunt deer so I can kill them and eat them, not to feel like Dan'l Boone.
Don't get me wrong, I think we should put effort into hunting and be ethical hunters at all times, but I'm not messed up if I can't get super close.I think he killed 45724908752409572439 elephants with a .177 air rifle.
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Agree and disagree. Some folk try to make up for poor shooting by getting a bigger (Usually a faster round not bigger, which does nothing for you if you can't hit 100 yards with your .270 a 7RM is not going to make you magically start making hits at 500 yards) rifle and they are going to wrong direction. However a man can become just as accurate and capable with a heavier caliber if he wants to put the time in. I can shoot a sub 2" 5 shot group at 20 yards with a .375H&H or a .404 Jeffery and I can shoot a controlled pair at 25 yards that are touching with a .470 NE double rifle or a .500 NE. It just takes desire and practice to get good with the bigger stuff. But in all reality the .375H&H in a properly fitting rifle has less felt recoil than most .300 mags IMO.
I have a totally different take on why one would shoot a larger caliber with a heavier bullet. The "magnums" I shoot are not uber flat zingers. They are in fact as slow or slower than your average .30-06 or especially your 130 gr .270. The .338 or the .375 push a 250 or a 270 gr bullet @ about 2700 FPS maybe a bit less or a bit more depending on your rifle. So for me it's not about extending your max point blank range at all. In fact my MPBR is less or the same than the rounds mentioned above. To me it's all about having an increased shot opportunity envelope as I tend to like to ghost timber and bust elk in their beds. I won't play that game with a .270 and 130 gr loads it's the wrong hammer for that particular job. However with my chosen caliber I am more than capable of making those 300+ yards shots too. All I am doing is increasing my utility a bit for my style of hunting. I also find the heavier slower bullets to do way less meat damage than your zappers like a .270 with a 130 gr bullet.
I am NOT suggesting that anybody go out and trade in your .270 for a .375 or a .338 not in the least. But in the 30+ years that I have been elk hunting this is the rifle and bullet combo that I have found to be best for my style of hunting. I am NOT a cross canyon long range elk sniper. That is where most guys get in trouble no matter what they are shooting. You'll notice that my preference is heavy .308 to .375 diameter with a good sectional density at a moderate velocity. And I've killed several dozen elk over the years with that combo. I've also killed elk with .270's and .30-06's and .308's once again I simply adjust my style of hunting to match my given equipment.
Many folks will suggest that you use a heavier round in fact some guides and outfitters will require it. The Mescalero Apache reservation has a .30 cal Minimum on elk hunts. But I haven't seen many "know it all's" on this site that demand that you use more gun. Folks just like to share information based on their unique experiences or in some cases unique fantasies
(it is the internet after all). I enjoy these kinds of conversations because I like to see what makes other hunters tick.
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Anybody who makes the Bell quote also needs to read Taylor and Stewart who both mention how many times Mr. Bell wound up running for his life or loosing bulls after wounding elephants and not being able to make a stopping shot on a fast retreating wounded bull with his puny caliber choice.
Arkansas Paul
Member
H&Hhunter, that doesn't matter. The fact is he killed elephants with a 7x57 Mauser, so its automatically an ideal elk cartridge and anyone who even considers buying a magnum round for any game animal has sawdust for brains.
That joke isn't meant at anyone in this thread. I just think its funny that some think anything over .243 is overkill for any animal and on the other side you have people thinking it takes a .338 magnum to kill a whitetail. I think both sides are crazy honestly.
Shoot what you want to shoot and let everyone else do the same. It's their money and their shoulder.
That joke isn't meant at anyone in this thread. I just think its funny that some think anything over .243 is overkill for any animal and on the other side you have people thinking it takes a .338 magnum to kill a whitetail. I think both sides are crazy honestly.
Shoot what you want to shoot and let everyone else do the same. It's their money and their shoulder.
Outlaw Man
Member
I've shot prairie dogs in Wyoming at longer distances than I'd probably ever get to shoot at a deer here. Out there, range estimation was a killer for me. There's almost nothing to compare to. I really had to lean on my hunting buddies who lived there.
When we were coyote hunting in the same area, I saw what I thought was a pack of coyotes, but on further investigation, it was a herd of antelope 3-4 times farther than I thought it was. My Dad said it was a good thing I didn't shoot, but there's no way my little .223 would have made it that far with any danger of the antelopes even noticing.
When we were coyote hunting in the same area, I saw what I thought was a pack of coyotes, but on further investigation, it was a herd of antelope 3-4 times farther than I thought it was. My Dad said it was a good thing I didn't shoot, but there's no way my little .223 would have made it that far with any danger of the antelopes even noticing.
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Exactly with our wonderful choice of bullets and scopes and rifles now days there really are very few wrong answers. So shoot what you like. The most important thing is just to get out and enjoy yourself with your chosen rifle.
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