Don't think I over reacted. idiot reached for my gun.

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I think this one has run its course. It there are any new developments, send a PM.
 
Update

So I spoke to Chucky at church tonight. The first thing I did was apologize for raising my voice. He admitted that his behavior was out of line and acknowledged that what he did was unsafe.

I told him that I understood that he got it but in the interest of safety I want to make it clear that grabbing another person’s firearm was unsafe and I’d rather he didn’t grab mine in the future. He denied that he ever had done so but said he wouldn’t in the future and I let it go.

I don’t know that this next was the right thing to do but he still seemed very excited by the fact that I was armed and I decided to take the mystery out of it. I asked him to close the door to the security office and told him I was going to show him my gun.

Explaining everything I was doing as I did it I drew my pistol, showed him how I was removing the magazine and clearing the chamber, showed him the empty chamber and explained why I was showing it to him and handed him the weapon.

He was like a kid on Christmas, He seemed very impressed that it was a Smith and Wesson (apparently he’s heard of them but never seen one) he asked a few questions about the gun like “is it heavy?” to which I replied “You’re holding it, you tell me.” and went to great lengths to point out that he wasn’t pointing it at me as he handed it back.

If it works out I may just take the guy shooting.

So thanks to Bullfrog and 9mmepiphany
 
Trunk Monkey said:
...I want to make it clear that grabbing another person’s firearm was unsafe and I’d rather he didn’t grab mine in the future. He denied that he ever had done so but said he wouldn’t in the future and I let it go.
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I'm glad it is working itself out for the both of you, however, I'll also point out that in your prior posts:

...and dropped his hand down on my gun.

...brush his hands across my hips he reached around behind me and put his hand directly on the gun

...touching my gun was not acceptable behavior

...Reaching for someone's gun one time isn't bright.
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I would not have considered or defined any of the above as "Grabbing your gun"...so if those are the words you used, he was on solid ground. Touching, brushing, or reaching for, isn't the same as grabbing
 
There are people we know who do like to hug, and I try to keep their arms and hands away from my 3:00 IWB holster. I usually succeed, but not long ago a boy we know who is left handed ran up from my right side, and I fell his hand stop very briefly when he touched the object under my untucked shirt, but he did not otherwise react. Didn't even change his friendly expression.
 
Officer's Wife said:
I'm glad to hear you resolved your problem without bloodshed.
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I don’t think anyone likes to admit when they are wrong but this time I was. To me (and I’m sure to almost everyone here) placing your hand on someone’s weapon without permission is a very serious breach of etiquette on a level with a person placing their hand on my private anatomy but bucking up didn't do any good. If I honestly believed that he was a threat (I did not) I should have employed active weapons retention techiniques if I didn't think he was a threat there was no point in making a big issue out of it.

FWIW I actually referenced this discussion with the head of security and I don’t think he totally agrees with the collective’s assessment that I caused the issue with my reaction but he is 100% in agreement that the Biblical means of addressing the issue of wrongs done with in the church is one on one first then you get the church eldership involved (Matthew 18: 15, 17)

Kleanbore said:
There are people we know who do like to hug,
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I'm not a hugger but I'm not going to cause hard feelings in the church to enforce that boundary.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I'm not a hugger but I'm not going to cause hard feelings in the church to enforce that boundary.
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I'll cue you into a anti-detection hugging technique.

When someone approaches you to hug, make sure that both your arms encircle them under both of their arms...there is no way they'll be able to feel you
 
limpingbear said:
you showed a lot more restraint than I would have. I think I would have popped him one on the nose that second time. With you being on the security team for the church and this man being an employee, he should know better. definately tell the higher ups in the church.
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every time I punched someone I got arrested which cost a lot of money. how would an assault effect your carry permit?
 
I've read along this thread with interest, and it seems to me like the issue was less about the gun (as someone pointed out, it wasn't really a "gun grab") and more about an inappropriate violation of personal space. If it were me, I would have viewed it the same as if the guy had pulled up my shirt to see the band on my boxer shorts, or taken a tug at my belt buckle.

Regardless of what it was, you clearly felt violated, you told the guy to back off and he didn't respect your wishes, and you took the high road by escalating the issue to authority figures rather than issuing a punishment yourself (which would have just complicated the issue even more). I think you played this one right.

I hope that you included as part of your "show and tell" a brief lecture about the important of discretion when it comes to CCW, and that it doesn't turn into a "hi, how's your gun?" every time you see him.
 
allaroundhunter said:
Well... Last time that someone tried to get to my gun they ended up flat on their back. Not something that I would do to a church greeter that I knew, however.
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The first time, no.

2nd time ... probably not.

3rd time ... say hello to Mr Floor.

Some people just have to be REALLY badly embarrassed for them to get the message. Unfortunate, but true.
 
I am sorry, I no longer have the physical ability to defend myself. I broke my back almost four years ago and still pay or it. My handgun is my lifeblood and besides my knife, the only way of defending myself. Being touchy freely or grabbing to use against me, like my estranged cousin, it is a big NO-NO. I think you handed it better than I did. Hug me , fine, but keep the hands off the Sig...lol.

My cousin honestly meant to draw mine on me(he knows my condition and that I carry on my right side). Needless to say I am glad we both made it through unscathed... At least the person grabbing at yours isn't a drunk and known narcotic addict... Stay safe brother and use that elbow to hurt some fingers if he reaches again...
 
Tony Dedo said:
I hope that you included as part of your "show and tell" a brief lecture about the important of discretion when it comes to CCW, and that it doesn't turn into a "hi, how's your gun?" every time you see him
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He actually stated that he wouldn't ever even reference my gun again before I even showed it to him
 
TonyDedo said:
...more about an inappropriate violation of personal space.
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I think that you accept certain exceptions when you belong to a Huggy Church...many times you have to compromise personal comfort zones in the name of the fitting into a community...or change communities
 
9mmepiphany said:
I think that you accept certain exceptions when you belong to a Huggy Church...many times you have to compromise personal comfort zones in the name of the fitting into a community...or change communities
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Don't think that was -my- quote, but none the less, even in a "hug happy" church that does not extend to fiddling with my sidearm ... particularly after I've told you twice (first nicely, 2nd time forcefully) to NOT do that. Third time you hit the floor.

I'm NOT going to let you do something stupid and shoot me, or anyone else, with my gun.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
So I spoke to Chucky at church tonight. The first thing I did was apologize for raising my voice. He admitted that his behavior was out of line and acknowledged that what he did was unsafe.

I told him that I understood that he got it but in the interest of safety I want to make it clear that grabbing another person’s firearm was unsafe and I’d rather he didn’t grab mine in the future. He denied that he ever had done so but said he wouldn’t in the future and I let it go.

I don’t know that this next was the right thing to do but he still seemed very excited by the fact that I was armed and I decided to take the mystery out of it. I asked him to close the door to the security office and told him I was going to show him my gun.

Explaining everything I was doing as I did it I drew my pistol, showed him how I was removing the magazine and clearing the chamber, showed him the empty chamber and explained why I was showing it to him and handed him the weapon.

He was like a kid on Christmas, He seemed very impressed that it was a Smith and Wesson (apparently he’s heard of them but never seen one) he asked a few questions about the gun like “is it heavy?” to which I replied “You’re holding it, you tell me.” and went to great lengths to point out that he wasn’t pointing it at me as he handed it back.

If it works out I may just take the guy shooting.

So thanks to Bullfrog and 9mmepiphany
Click to expand...
Weird, maybe not.
 
mgkdrgn said:
Don't think that was -my- quote,
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You're right, sorry for the mis-quote...it was TonyDedo...and I made a correction

but none the less, even in a "hug happy" church that does not extend to fiddling with my sidearm ... particularly after I've told you twice (first nicely, 2nd time forcefully) to NOT do that. Third time you hit the floor.

I'm NOT going to let you do something stupid and shoot me, or anyone else, with my gun.
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I was referring to the futility of trying to keep someone out of "personal space" in a culture where hugging and physical contact is the norm
 
I have issues with people I don't want in my personal space, too.

One technique to avoid getting totally entangled is the "side hug", exposing only one side of your body.

John
 
I think you're correct and that the head of security needs to have a very serious talk about this with all the curch staff and not just this fellow. Hugging doesn't extend to intentional contact with firearms.
 
hso said:
I think you're correct and that the head of security needs to have a very serious talk about this with all the curch staff and not just this fellow.
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I didn't ask for details but when I told the head of security how my meeting with Chucky went he hinted that he'd had to have the same discussion with various other staff members when he came on board. He's take on it is " They grew up in the "church bubble" and they don't thinkl of it as unsafe they think it's funny."
 
BullfrogKen said:
If you agree this isn't an attempt to gain control of your gun, but some fellow just toying with you, why on earth are you talking about popping the guy in the nose, throttling him, or any sort of physical response at all? Your thoughts and anger aren't appropriate for a man already halfway through his life as a proper response.




Bullying? No, I'm not sure it goes that far. Is there evidence he bullies anyone else, or just you? I really don't think a congregation would stand for a bully as the church greeter.

I don't see where you used that option. Calm and self-assured is viewed as powerful. Amped up and uncomfortable is interpretted as weak. I've had plenty of opportunities in life to communicate to someone what they're doing was unacceptable, and they stopped. And I didn't have to go all Steven Seagal to do it.


This - and he doesn’t, then what - is one reason why.


Harsh words, I know. But you chose to carry a gun, so you don't get the right to be angry while you have it. And you chose to volunteer for this security team. Not only must you forego anger, you must perform the duty with discretion and tact.

I think you glossed over what I said about a gun and this volunteer duty you're performing. Personally, I'd be very concerned about someone who felt that a gun on their person was the asset they brought for the security detail to my social gathering, whether it be church or a motorcyle club meeting.

In such a role your interpersonal skills are the asset, not your gun.


I'd encourage you to listen to the advice from another pake, and really flesh out what your duty here is with the church.
And I'd encourage you to go have some conversations with that Peace Officer on your team, and the church leadership if you're going to continue performing it.
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you are right a mountain was made out of an ant hill over this. people talking about lawyers assaults reporting him very sad and this style is used against gun owners by the antis. come on just stay away from the guy quit the security team. anyway you see he wants to shoot now. will you beat him up if he scratches your gun? some guys want to flatten a guy like that which I think is just talk and would not happen
 
Take the fellow shooting,eh?

I like the idea of taking the him to the range for some much needed instruction.

I can only imagine the tense situation of someone making any effort to expose or shed light on a concealed weapon in a setting such as a church. Would leave a bad taste to say the least, regardless of the subjects intentions.

It does sound though, that he may be more curious than anything, definatley not understanding of the principals that are ingrained into the mind of a CCW holder.

Lending a some insight and training to him could nurture a calling for all anybody could wonder, and at least keep him from making the same mistake in a setting not so forgiving........
 
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