357 lever action weak?

I think if anyone considers the 357 weak in a lever gun, it is in comparison to other chamberings commonly found in a lever gun. It falls short of 44 mag, 45 colt and 30-30. Course, none of that means I'd trade my 1894C for one.

For deer and other medium sized game, it is considered by some to be marginal. But that is compared to other cartridges in the platform, i.e. 44, 45, 30-30, 35rem, 45-70.

Personally, I have no problem taking a shot at a deer or other yummy animal with a nice 180gr at a reasonable distance. 150yds or so just because of the limited velocity due to flat nosed bullets. Leverevolution can gain you some advantage.

For two legged targets, I don't think anyone's laughing off anything 110gr or above at pretty much any distance you can do it at.

I have taken a few pigs with Hornady 158 GRN XTP's and they pretty much dropped on the spot. They were about 175 lbs each and shots were about 50 yards.

The "weakness" of that cartridge is only due to its range. 100 yards or in, it's very capable. But velocities have to be high enough for the bullet to perform.

Weak in comparison to normal lever gun cartridges like .30-30.

.357 Magnum ~ 775ftlbs
.30-30 ~1900ftlbs

BSW

When shot from my Marlin 1894C:
125gr Hornady XTP AV 2239 fps 1391 ft/lbs energy
140gr Sierra JHC AV 2030 fps 1280 ft/lbs energy
150gr Sierra JHC AV 1826 fps 1120 ft/lbs energy
170gr Sierra JHC AV 1793 fps 1213 ft/lbs energy
180gr Hornady XTP AV 1594 fps 1015 ft/lbs energy
180gr Cast Performance WFNGC AV 1657 fps 1097 ft/lbs energy

For comparison, from my 30-30 levergun:
150gr Sierra FN AV 2038 fps 1383 ft/lbs energy
170gr Hornady FP AV 1930 fps 1405 ft/lbs energy

The .357 Magnum WEAK?? I think not!

I was using the numbers from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-30_Winchester

Compared to those, the .357s are overloaded and the .30-30s are underloaded.

BSW

I was using the numbers from:

Click to expand...

So you compared a 357 pistol to a 24" barreled 30/30 rifle.

I hunt with a .357 12" Contender and I have shot deer but you have to be up to the challenge. The reputation of a man stopper may be justified but stopping a person and dropping a deer QUICKLY and recovering it are two different things. I can tell you at 50 yards a 158 grain UMC softpoint will not pass through a 150-200lb deer most of the time. If you make a marginal shot on a deer with a .357 and it is going to die but maybe 500 yards into the thick stuff and two hours later with little blood trail. I can shoot out to 100 yards with pretty tight groups but there is insufficient retained energy at that distance. If you choose to hunt with a .357 you are handicapping yourself. If you are new to hunting get some serious experience or take close careful shots. Here is a recovered neck shot Remington UMC .357 158 grain.

40% higher velocity than can be had with a long barreled revolver?

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I would not expect 2500 FPS out of a rifle

Take a look at this chart from Ballistics by the Inch.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

If you don't know about these guys, they take a particular caliber and load and shoot it out of a barrel, then cut an inch off and do it again. Repeat until no barrel is left. They also compare their test rig to some real world guns.

Out of a rifle, a full house load like Buffalo Bore will be right on the tail of the 30-30 in terms of performance.

A 357 compared to most handgun rounds is pretty potent. Fired from a rifle it is even more potent. This sums it up pretty well

Out of a rifle, a full house load like Buffalo Bore will be right on the tail of the 30-30 in terms of performance.

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This is a true statement, but still isn't saying much. Even a 30-30 compared to most modern rifles is pretty weak.

Look at it this way a 3/4 ton diesel pickup is going to be able to tow 2-3X more weight than a typical 1/2 ton truck with a gas engine. Think of the 3/4 ton truck as a 357 rifle and the 1/2 ton truck as the 357 handgun. Most modern rifles would compare to a Peterbuilt.

Even a 30-30 compared to most modern rifles is pretty weak.

Click to expand...

Very true, but inside 150 yards, a deer wont know the difference. I doubt many soft targets could tell you from the freezer whether you used a .357 or a .300win mag.

I wouldn't have a problem hunting deer with a 357 magnum. I would just limit myself to 75 yards or so and make sure I could place the shot where it needed to go. The chances of needing to shoot farther than that in my hunting area is pretty small anyway.

buffalo bore apples to apples.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=222

190gr 1860lb ft from a 20" 30-30


Beyond that one of the gun rags, either online or print did a comparison a few months back. Tested comparable loads and barrel lengths loaded at the saami specs the 30-30 held roughly a 20% advantage in engery in the per barrel. Largely due to case capacity if memory serves me right in the article. Both potent in their suitable ranges, and minimum fuss recoil wise.

it has been said - with a 357mag you get penetration or expansion, but not both, that neck shot above is more prof of that "nice mushroom" hard to believe but a cast SWC would have worked better, and a longer barrel would have helped even more , with that said , lots of deer go nowhere after getting hit with a 357mag lever gun, stay under 100 yards "MAX" and use the right bullet , fill your freezer and show that to the folks saying it's a week cartage .

Never lose sight of the intended objective when assessing anything. The .357 Mag, the 30-30, and every other round is fine for its intended use. The problem arises when some weak minded individual needs to prop up his ego by demeaning anything he feels threatened by so always use the proper stick to measure and don't get sucked into a discussion where there is no fixed standard of comparison. A Jenny biplane should not be compared to an F-16 because they were both built for different functions.

I don't know where you guys are from, or your hunting style, but il chime in.
where I'm from, hunting with a 357 would be a stunt. It's general knowledge that an adequate deer rifle must be at least a 300 win mag, with belted magnums being preferred to the marginal non belted cases. Also, iron sights must not b considered. A 4-12x50 scope should be considered a minimum.


(by the way I'm from South Louisiana and 90% of hunting here is from less than 20 yards, usually over bait, and a lot of our deer are <100 pounds)

One old line writer put it the other way.
"Why is a revolver firing a 158 grain bullet at 1510 feet per second (original 8 3/4" S&W rating) considered suitable for all manner of big game while my .30-06 when loaded to the same ballistics is a grouse gun?"

Stop this willful nonsense of manipulating numbers to make a revolver cartridge that Elmer Keith himself, one of its fathers, deemed marginal as a holster gun, the equal of a rifle cartridge that has taken more deer in North America than any other, and quite a bit of other game to boot.

The 357 lever gun is not a responsible 150 yard rifle for deer. The 30-30 is. Under 100 yards, the only real difference between them is what size entry hole you want. Why anyone should have a chip on their shoulder about that is beyond me.

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Buffalo Bore has a .357 load that has more energy from a carbine than most .30-30 ammo.
I'd use that ammo for deer anyday.
Though I prefer .44 mag and .444 Marlin for carbines.

i think allot of people tend to forget that a pistol round is still a pistol round. its not going to be as powerful as a rifle round.


jaymo- they also make a ,30-30 load thats pretty darn impressive

Excellent writeup in TTAG: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/chris-dumm/lever-action-ballistics-30-30-vs-357-magnum/

No less an authority than John Taffin said:

Of all the rifles

offered if I had to narrow it down to

just one, my choice would be the

Marlin 1894C .357 Magnum. There is

not much as far as shooting and

hunting we cannot do with a .357

Magnum levergun. No it is not for

elephants, Cape buffalo, or Alaskan

brown bear, however it has been years

since any of these have been sighted

in Idaho. For the rest of my life a .357

Magnum Marlin would do the just

fine.

Click to expand...

http://www.sixguns.com/range/Marlin.htm




For my part of Texas, I'm pretty sure a 357 levergun would do nicely.

briansmithwins said:

I was using the numbers from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_Magnum

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-30_Winchester

Compared to those, the .357s are overloaded and the .30-30s are underloaded.

BSW

Click to expand...

No Sir, neither is true. I load my ammo according to published load data. Sure I'm bumping up against the max charges but they are not overloaded. You can use what ever data you please but the only data that matters to me is what my rifles will do with my ammo since that's what I'll be using.

The last 2 deer I took home didn't know my 30-30 ammo was underloaded. I guess they died too fast to figure it out.