Carry Gun Paradigm Shift

Glock 19...ugly is in the eyes of the beholder... Personally, I don't see ugly. I see functional and reliable and effective.

A post bordering on starting a caliber war.

doc540 said:

compared to my custom CCO, it looks like Nancy Pelosi

wait, I take that back

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Thanks, that image in my mind just ruined my day....

I have 1911's in 45 acp but nearly always carry a Glock 23/32 or 27/33 depending on attire

I like a big 45 bullet, but I can appreciate the benefit of having additional rounds at my disposal.
7 + 1 of 45 acp 230 gr.
VS
13 + 1 of 40 S&W 180 gr.
(extra magazine with either)

Also, since I carry the compact model 27 sometimes there is no difference in shooting by going with the larger 23; if I chose the 1911 I would introduce another variable- a safety that must be manually disengaged.

Somebody on one of these forums said that 1911's are the guns you show your friends. Glocks are the guns you show your enemies.

I carry a 1st gen Glock 19 and have for like the last 15 yrs or so. My reloads with Speer 124gr Gold Dots.

That's funny, I started out with a glock 19, and now I carry a glock 30sf, granted one of the main reasons I got the 30 incase JHPs don't open up with winter clothing. Still like my 19, might carry it in the summer when people have less clothing on. I still like as many rounds as I can have, yet still grip the pistol well. On a side note I have some four legged predictors out here in the sticks.

mtrmn said:

I carry a 1st gen Glock 19 and have for like the last 15 yrs or so.

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Are the front and back straps serrated or smooth? If serrated it's a Gen2 Glock.

They made a very small run of 19s as a special order by a police department that were Gen1. They do occasionally show up on the market.

All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
That's why I carry a 15+1 SIG P2022 9mm.
Tomac

I actually recently standardized my auto loaders on the 9mm Glocks for much the same reason as you. I've got a Glock 19 and Glock 26. I saw similar advice from prominent instructors and terminal ballistics authorities emphasizing shot placement and multiple hits to decisively neutralize threats, and for me 9mm is the best choice.

That said, I do still have some magnum and big bore revolvers for range fun.

I can't stand Glocks...I'd rather be surrounded by pictures of all the Glock models ever made then have one picture of Ms Pelosi staring me in the face. Heck, if people will un-elect her, I'll BUY a Glock!

Back to the OP...*ahem*, I believe shot placement does matter, but the illogical extension of this is that everything should be a 22lr, because of very high mag capacity and very low recoil. I think 9mm works well for both shot placement and damage inflicted, with modern high quality self defense ammunition, but I also will never, ever give someone grief about carrying 45ACOP, 40SW, 357, 38 Special, etc., hey, it's what works for YOU.

The only requirement in a serious fighting weapon is reliability. I agree most folks should not carry a 1911, because of the needed knowledge base, and time to maintain it. The good news is that today we have a large number of reliable handguns to choose from. Still tops in reliability is the quality revolver, bar none. But todays selection of pistols is quite broad. One can be picky but most of them are good.

Please do not confuse civilian/police durability with military reliability and durability. Two different ballparks when applied to small arms.

Caliber is simple. For semi-auto's it's either 9 or 45. Many folks I respect like the 40S&W but I have yet to see or hear of a reason for it's existance, over the 9 or 45. Knowledgeable quality bullet selection is what is important regardless of caliber.

I have used both the 45acp and 38spl (when I did my job, the caliber did it's job) in combat, and seen the 9mm in action in several of those same actions. They were all military in nature. The handgun was only used when my primary weapon went dry at a point that the Black hats didn't want to give me time to reload soon enough for me to prevent new entries in my Health Record Book. Needless to say I succeeded, they did not. Understand I felt that when ever I was using a handgun, I was just staying alive, I fight with a rifle.

Pick a good reliable weapon for your mission statement, LEARN IT! Not just to shoot it, learn how to maintain it to it's smallest component, change your springs and in some cases, pins on schedules, and keep to it. Clean it when you use it. Just like your vehicle, teeth and body. Exactly the same issues.

As a former Marine DI this isn't advice, it's gospel. Never saw a man die BECAUSE he cleaned and maintained HIS OWN weapon. I have seen several die and get wounded because they did not.

Unless your mission requires it, large number of bullets is rarely "required", but can't hurt within reason. Don't think of possibility, stick with probability. I could get over run by an armored company of North Koreans on the way to the supermarket, but most likely will not.

I am equally at home with a 6 shot revolver, which I carried for years as I did a 8 shot 1911, 13 shot SIG 228, or a 15 shot Walther PPQ or HK. Nothing wrong with any 9mm Glock, but I subjectively don't care for them. I recommend Glocks to many folks. Owned my first Glock back in the mid to late 80s. I don't care for many compact weapons either.

Go figure.

Fred

1911's are the guns you show your friends. Glocks are the guns you show your enemies.

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Meh. 1911s are for those who can master a more complicated platform, desire an accurate pistol with a superior trigger pull; Glocks are the guns the bean-counters can show to those who approve their budgets.

Not trying to start a pro/anti 1911 war.

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Oh. I understand, really (even though I'm at heart a 1911 guy). At any rate, I do believe we've spoken to this topic quite often, not long ago in this thread I brought up much the same concept:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=677106

HexHead said:

Are the front and back straps serrated or smooth? If serrated it's a Gen2 Glock.

They made a very small run of 19s as a special order by a police department that were Gen1. They do occasionally show up on the market.

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OK you busted me. Mine is serrated with little squares molded in the grip frame. But I have had this gun since our sheriffs dept first went to Glocks and I bought it from one of the deputies. My only defense is that I have NOT studied the history of these Glocks and their "generations"-I simply assumed that since the gun is so old (actually bought early 1990's but didn't start carrying til later) it had to be 1st gen. There is no rail or any other fancy stuff on it.

I think the Barnes 9mm TAC-XPD comes up a little short in the penetration department.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7ZGKghQtw4

The only requirement in a serious fighting weapon is reliability.

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STRONGLY disagree.

Reliability is priority number 1, but making a Kel Tec PF9 100% reliable would not make it a serious fighting weapon. Handling characteristics, sights, some ergonomic issues, etc can contribute to or take away from a weapon's efficacy as a "serious fighting weapon".

Handling characteristics are badly underrated.

1911's are nice. The limited 8-round capacity (Regardless of how reliable .45ACP is) turns me off from wanting to carry it for any other reason but to show it off, though. If I want to carry seriously, I carry something else. If I want to show off a good-looking gun to friends, I might carry the 1911...And a long-gun in the trunk

Sorry.... I couldn't help myself.

As far as I'm concerned, the 9mm is cheaper to shoot (even though I reload), so its easier to practice with and become proficient. It also allows for smaller guns like my Ruger LC9 that are easier to conceal (and therefore more likely to be carried). Plus, for the same size gun I get higher capacity (7 + 1 with an extra 7 round mag = 15 rounds). Those are a few reasons why I've stuck with 9mm.

I love the .45 ACP, though. Just not to carry on a day to day basis.

My S&W 1911 was my first centerfire and is probably my single-most-fired weapon. It's got somewhere between 10k-15k rounds through it. Once I got my first Glock, it was an easy decision to put the S&W in the back of the safe. That might not be the choice for everyone, but I wouldn't say someone choosing a Glock over a 1911 has trouble mastering "a more complicated platform" or is focusing on finances when they do so. The cost of my 9mm and .45 reloaded rounds is identical no less.

Even though they're almost identical except for slide/grip length, I think the subcompact (G26 etc) models look great, while the full size and compact models are pretty ugly. For me it's about the proportion of slide length to grip length (the main reason I don't like mag bumper pads). The main reason I got rid of my G26 was that it was too wide for pocket carry.

Now my EDC is an LCP, but that's only because my job means I basically have to pocket carry rather than carry on my hip. I think my next purchase is going to be a 3" SP101 for those days when I can get away with carrying an IWB.