Mike1234567
member
RE prohibitive costs: Mmm... $200 for a used Hi-Point 9mm and a box of cheap FMJ... vs all the extra expenses? I don't think so.
IL - 1000s Won't be Able to Apply For Concealed Carry License
- Thread starter wtr100
- Start date
- Status
RE prohibitive costs: Mmm... $200 for a used Hi-Point 9mm and a box of cheap FMJ... vs all the extra expenses? I don't think so.
you really think that an average judge is going to buy into the argument that a Yugo is the typical car someone is likely to buy.
no doubt there will be some instruction available to some people at no cost at all. does that mean everyone should be considered to have a free pass for training so the training cost is not an issue?
Mike1234567
member
^^^ WTH?? Haven't you EVER been broke... or known someone who was... just trying desperately to feed their family? If not then you're completely out of touch with the realities of "common folk"... who may, or may not, deserve the right to self defense... depending on your whim.
FL is good for 7 years. Who else clips non-residents for $300 besides IL? Who else requires 16 hours of training? Who else requires a FOID card, then a FCCL on top of that?
And just because IL might not be alone in the gouging department doesn't make it right. What is relevant is the cost of providing the service. IL earmarks some of the money to other purposes. It's a long way to justify $150 or $300 for something that doesn't really amount to much more that what it takes to provide a 10 year, $10 FOID.
Kingcreek
Member
I just spoke with my reps office. There are numerous UNNECESSARY problems with the law and the changes they keep throwing out. They are trying to fix some of it but they only seem to do everything the hard way. Gotta luv Illinois. Jeez, throw those Chicago D idiots off the committees and I think it would work.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Looks like some of my responses have already been addressed on this issue, however:
1. This isn't the 1980's...computers are everywhere, even if you don't own one. Public librarys have them free for use.
2. Anybody who would be able to spend the kind of money it takes to own and shoot a firearm should be able to at least buy a low-end computer that will do everything they reasonably need at an affordable price, comparatively speaking. A used laptop with WiFi can be used at any free hotspot.
3. You don't need a "real" credit card nowadays. Drop into any corner drug store, or nearly any other store, and buy a VISA gift card. Works just like a real credit/debit card. And PayPal can be linked to a bank account as well as a credit card.
I'm sure this may be an inconvenience to some...but not nearly the inconvenience I experienced many years ago when I was still a resident of Indiana, which is a "shall-issue" state.
In Lafayette, I could ONLY pick up the paperwork one day of the week, in the middle of the week, between the hours of 1 and 2 in the afternoon. The paperwork HAD to be typed, not printed, according to the police directions (despite the form saying "typed or neatly printed"). It could ONLY be turned in on that ONE day of the week between the hours of 1 and 2 in the afternoon, with the processing fee. After a week or so it could be picked up but ONLY on that ONE day of the week between the hours of 1 and 2. Then you mailed in your paperwork, along with the local PD form letter that said that they didn't really think that you needed a concealed carry permit because the crime rate didn't warrant it, mumble mumble something about training, blah blah blah.
So, optimally speaking, it took me at least three consecutive weekly trips to the police department while taking time off of work in the middle of the afternoon during the week just to get my paperwork processed and ready to mail to the state police.
Then you mailed it off with your fee to the state police and in a few weeks you got your nice, pink concealed carry permit in the mail...good for 4 years.
See the trend? A shall-issue state, but with a pain in the keister process locally.
If it's computerized, then the forms can be completed at ANY time of the day or week. And that alone takes a lot of the hassle out of it. And computerized forms remove the hassle of shuffling paperwork through the postal service and the many desks and hands it requires to process it, which in turn speeds things up and prevents them from being lost.
1. This isn't the 1980's...computers are everywhere, even if you don't own one. Public librarys have them free for use.
2. Anybody who would be able to spend the kind of money it takes to own and shoot a firearm should be able to at least buy a low-end computer that will do everything they reasonably need at an affordable price, comparatively speaking. A used laptop with WiFi can be used at any free hotspot.
3. You don't need a "real" credit card nowadays. Drop into any corner drug store, or nearly any other store, and buy a VISA gift card. Works just like a real credit/debit card. And PayPal can be linked to a bank account as well as a credit card.
I'm sure this may be an inconvenience to some...but not nearly the inconvenience I experienced many years ago when I was still a resident of Indiana, which is a "shall-issue" state.
In Lafayette, I could ONLY pick up the paperwork one day of the week, in the middle of the week, between the hours of 1 and 2 in the afternoon. The paperwork HAD to be typed, not printed, according to the police directions (despite the form saying "typed or neatly printed"). It could ONLY be turned in on that ONE day of the week between the hours of 1 and 2 in the afternoon, with the processing fee. After a week or so it could be picked up but ONLY on that ONE day of the week between the hours of 1 and 2. Then you mailed in your paperwork, along with the local PD form letter that said that they didn't really think that you needed a concealed carry permit because the crime rate didn't warrant it, mumble mumble something about training, blah blah blah.
So, optimally speaking, it took me at least three consecutive weekly trips to the police department while taking time off of work in the middle of the afternoon during the week just to get my paperwork processed and ready to mail to the state police.
Then you mailed it off with your fee to the state police and in a few weeks you got your nice, pink concealed carry permit in the mail...good for 4 years.
See the trend? A shall-issue state, but with a pain in the keister process locally.
If it's computerized, then the forms can be completed at ANY time of the day or week. And that alone takes a lot of the hassle out of it. And computerized forms remove the hassle of shuffling paperwork through the postal service and the many desks and hands it requires to process it, which in turn speeds things up and prevents them from being lost.
RPRNY
Member
Nailed it. The hypocrisy of this regulation, designed to subvert both a constitutional right and the recent SCOTUS ruling that required the change in IL law, and this regulation, is staggering. Regulations that inhibit voting by illegal aliens, who overwhelmingly vote Democrat, are abhorrent while regulations that diminish access to exercise of 2nd Amendment rights by the poor are reasonable. Marxist-Liberalist doublethink in action.
marv
Member
I read yesterday that they will accept paper applications.
I've done the online application (instructors were invited to do them early).
Was a pain in the butt, and I had to actually go find an older computer to use. Couldn't get it to work with windows 8.1. But it worked fine with Windows 7.
It's a somewhat lengthy process. Going through and making an IL state digital ID before you can even start. Then you have to have your digital photograph of yourself, and your certificate(s) scanned in and ready to upload.
Have your FOID and drivers license handy, when you do it as well. You need the drivers license information to create your state ID. (They ask for the license # and for several pieces of information on the license itself that has to be entered exactly).
You also need a credit card with MORE than $150 on it as they charge almost $4 for "processing fees" on top of the $150 fee!
Was a pain in the butt, and I had to actually go find an older computer to use. Couldn't get it to work with windows 8.1. But it worked fine with Windows 7.
It's a somewhat lengthy process. Going through and making an IL state digital ID before you can even start. Then you have to have your digital photograph of yourself, and your certificate(s) scanned in and ready to upload.
Have your FOID and drivers license handy, when you do it as well. You need the drivers license information to create your state ID. (They ask for the license # and for several pieces of information on the license itself that has to be entered exactly).
You also need a credit card with MORE than $150 on it as they charge almost $4 for "processing fees" on top of the $150 fee!
Panzerschwein
member
Most of the people in my area of Illinois without internet access probably don't even know IL is up for concealed carry at all. Hell most probably still think the Earth is flat.
KIDDING! Really though, as much as I hate paperwork on the computer, I can't say this is a terrible thing. Like some others mentioned this will probably be more efficient than going with paper. The people who TRULY "don't have internet access" I'm sure are few and far between. You are telling me they don't have access to any place with public computers nor do they have any family members or friends with a computer who could help them? Not in my home state.
KIDDING! Really though, as much as I hate paperwork on the computer, I can't say this is a terrible thing. Like some others mentioned this will probably be more efficient than going with paper. The people who TRULY "don't have internet access" I'm sure are few and far between. You are telling me they don't have access to any place with public computers nor do they have any family members or friends with a computer who could help them? Not in my home state.
rugerman07
Member
YES. Paper applications will be accepted but not until, July, 2014.
rugerman07
Member
What epay source is the ISP using? Paypal?
don't matter one bit what you or I think. you have to convince a judge.
you have to realize that the whole bill was written to make it as unappealing to urban folks as they could possibly make it. they did a fine job of that.
the so called safe harbor provision of leaving a gun in your vehicle makes it more palatable if you live outside urban areas where you mostly have to drive anyway, so you mostly have a place to leave the gun when you enter a prohibited place.
If you live in urban areas and take public transportation, you are screwed because there is just no place to leave it. You would be at the mercy of the dubious idea that you can "transport" it on public transportation versus "carrying" it, but now you are in a very murky area of the law where you are either in violation of the FCCA (6 months in the pokey) or in violation of the "firearm on public property" law which is a year. Neither is really a good choice so I suspect most people who take public transportation will be forced to leave their guns at home.
Mike1234567
member
Chief... Why not offer both methods? Since, as others say, the electronic forms are far easier for most people and most people are savvy enough and have access to computers and internet services, all those people will utilize that method. This will cut those using the old inefficient paper method by 99 percent. So... why not allow those without those skills and services to file via the old method? It'll only be 1 percent of the workload... and that 1 percent can still apply.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Mike, they will. Read post 37.
Mike1234567
member
Thanks, Sam. My argument is toward those who advocate completely eliminating paper applications which, IMHO, would be unfair to a few applicants.
DammitBoy
Member
The entire process is unfair and should be illegal
I doubt many of us would disagree but it is what the NRA, the ISRA, and IllinoisCarry got us.
I think we would have been better off with nothing at this stage of the game.
DT Guy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2003
- Messages
- 1,836
I think we all need to step back and put this in perspective: this state fought this tooth, fang and claw, right down to the wire. We have a completely liberally controlled state legislature, a laughably inept, nearly unintelligible but supremely liberal Governor, and Obama's former right-hand man running the city (AKA, 'the tail that wags the dog.')
Our carry bill being 'shall issue' is more than I hoped for, and we have shifted the momentum of the debate permanently in our favor; rescinding the right to carry in Illinois has become essentially impossible, where for my lifetime HAVING the right to carry in Illinois was unthinkable. We have a state full of people who have NEVER known armed citizens, and have been brainwashed to believe it will be 'blood in the streets' by Rahm, Pat Quinn and Garry 'Streetlights' McCarthy.
When that doesn't happen, when the sky DOESN'T fall, and when stories start to get reported about a goblin occasionally getting the wrong end of a crime, we will start making even more headway with the public.
Am I thrilled by the bill? Hell no. Am I amazed at how good it IS, for the time and place it had to be debated? Hell yes.
Larry
Our carry bill being 'shall issue' is more than I hoped for, and we have shifted the momentum of the debate permanently in our favor; rescinding the right to carry in Illinois has become essentially impossible, where for my lifetime HAVING the right to carry in Illinois was unthinkable. We have a state full of people who have NEVER known armed citizens, and have been brainwashed to believe it will be 'blood in the streets' by Rahm, Pat Quinn and Garry 'Streetlights' McCarthy.
When that doesn't happen, when the sky DOESN'T fall, and when stories start to get reported about a goblin occasionally getting the wrong end of a crime, we will start making even more headway with the public.
Am I thrilled by the bill? Hell no. Am I amazed at how good it IS, for the time and place it had to be debated? Hell yes.
Larry
Its amazing to me how differently the Second Amendment is treated by the court.
No one in the poor inner city neighborhoods has the ability to apply digitally and very very few have the ability to pay the kind of money that is required and that is exactly how the overlords of the Chicago Democratic Machine designed it to be.
I don't think so - because no one can get a bill out of Madigan's executive committee - that makes him the most powerful politician in Illinois, more powerfull than the governor.
The only reason we got the Family and Personal Protection Act passed was because Judge Posner & CA7's ruling meant that if they didn't pass the act, Illinois would revert to some kind of "court carry" - similar to constitutional carry.
No one in the poor inner city neighborhoods has the ability to apply digitally and very very few have the ability to pay the kind of money that is required and that is exactly how the overlords of the Chicago Democratic Machine designed it to be.
I don't think so - because no one can get a bill out of Madigan's executive committee - that makes him the most powerful politician in Illinois, more powerfull than the governor.
The only reason we got the Family and Personal Protection Act passed was because Judge Posner & CA7's ruling meant that if they didn't pass the act, Illinois would revert to some kind of "court carry" - similar to constitutional carry.
There are plenty of court cases to come that will deal with some of the more onerous issues with the law.
One thing that probably won't change is the cost and the background check. IL is not far off from most states on those things and it is unlikely a federal court will want to try and decide what an appropriate cost is for a LTC.
A state court might take the bite though.
The Family and Personal Protection Act never even came close to passing. What passed is called the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. It is a completely different animal.
At some point there will be a way to tell what the actual costs are to produce a permit. This is the point where the state will be shown to be profiting off of the backs of those trying to exercise their civil rights. The fact that they are taking money from these people to pay for other programs will be held unconstitutional. In court, the argument that they have to charge these fees to make sure we are legally able to safely carry a firearm concealed won't fly when they are shown to be doing other things with the money.
They are gouging. They know it. Poll tax.
They are gouging. They know it. Poll tax.
It is going to be some company that you and I have never heard of that is politically crony coupled to someone in the IL government.
- Status
