Ever had a gun sale go bad while in the process

I hate negotiation. If I try to sell something, I price it at my rock bottom price in a futile attempt to avoid haggling. Obviously this seldom works. The reason has been posted previously: there are people who get some kind of ego boost over this haggling process. And they love to brag about it. As they are telling me about it, they don't realize that not only doesn't it impress me, it makes me think less of them.

I have tons of stuff that I would love to get rid of. But I don't try to sell it because I don't want to go through the hassle. I can't tell you how much GOOD stuff I have given away free to someone who I thought would appreciate it just to avoid having to listen to some clown try to beat me down on it.

I WILL NOT negotiate when I am selling something. As soon as I get a counter-offer the deal is over immediately.

I used to go to a store that had some cool stuff, but it was all over-priced. I mentioned this to a friend who told me that this guy purposely priced his merchandise high so there could be some room for negotiation. At that point, I quit even window shopping there.

I remember when I was a kid, my dad bought a new car and advertised his old car in the paper for $100. All he wanted was to get rid of it. Some guy bought it for $100. My dad told him that it was a pile of junk. He made him verbally acknowledge that it was a pile of junk prior to selling it to him. Hours later the guy called and said the car had a brake problem. My dad told him to come back, gave him the $100 and told him to get lost.

The OP did far more than I would have done. I would have advertised it at a given price and when someone offered me less, I would have said no and not responded to them again. If I showed up and the guy didn't have the precise amount of cash I asked, I would have got in the car and left without one word of further discussion.

But that just me.

I just dealt with this last week. I listed a pistol for sale for $825 on a local site. Guy responds and after some haggling, we agree to meet on Sunday to exchange $800 for the pistol.

He texted me at 11:30pm Saturday night to confirm I was coming. The guy had messaged me repeatedly, because he really wanted this gun. I told him I would call at 11am to arrange a meet location.

When I called, he said he had "found another gun, sorry about that". Really? You found another gun after pestering me for a week to buy my gun? Between 11:30 Saturday night and 11:00 Sunday morning?

What a Jerk.

If we agree to a price and you show up with less than that said price I am leaving a gun is a luxury item if you come up short and say something like "man's gotta eat you know" which I've had happen I will leave and tell you take your money and go buy groceries you don't need this gun. I once turned down a very wealthy old doctor because he said something to the effect to me he drove away mad in his brand new Mercedes

The horror stories get worse on some venues, like eBay. I was the high bidder on three items, and paid by PayPal. Seller refused to ship the the item, them relisted it. Oh, and he left me unpaid bidder strikes on all three items. I was beyond POed.

This guy was no Mensa candidate. PayPal transactions are pretty hard to explain away. I spent a couple of hours on the phone to PP, and eBay. Both parties were fully aware of my feelings when we finished up. I got my money back, and the thief got a 6 month vacation from eBay.

Somewhat related to a deal is a deal is a deal...

I bought an old camera lens from a seller on eBay. The BIN prices was $125 with overnight shipping. I don't like taking advantage but if I hadn't bought it then someone else would have. Had it been a face-to-face deal I would have told him what the lens was worth. Yes, I really would have. I had the lens in my hands the next day, photographed and listed it and had it sold to a buyer in Japan that same day. The guy I bought it from saw the sale and was screaming angry. He demanded that I give him "at least" half of the profit I made. I explained that he should have done his research first and I just did what anyone else would have done. He kept up the enraged emails so I blocked his address. BTW, I bought the lens for $125 shipped and sold it for $525 plus shipping. If the fellow who sold me the lens was at least somewhat cordial I probably would have given him some of the profit... but not half.

A deal is a deal is a deal...

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which fails to be the case in many situations.


The OP already described his gun. Don't be obtuse.


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Did you tell the guy in San Jose that you would take the gun?

It was a meet for me to examine the gun. Now you're being deliberately obtuse. You're trying to be cute. You're not.

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Hey, Sunny, that coment was in reference to YOUR post, not the OP.
If you don't like the way people negotiate, then stick to the auctions.
One more thing, one cannot be both a cute AND obutse, but you can tri that angle.

my understanding is that a verbal agreement is a legal contract

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It's called an oral contract, and there's generally some considerations. There has to be an offer and acceptance. There also has to consideration (a legal term). It's been a few years since I took business law, but IIRC, "consideration" means each party is bringing something of equivalent value to the transaction.

For example, if you offer to sell me your $50,000 car for $1, and I accept, I can't hold you to it. There's disparity in what we're each bringing to the transaction, hence, no consideration.

What else? Property can't be transferred by a mere oral contract. I learned that a few years ago when my father passed.

And depending upon the state, oral contracts aren't valid for amounts over $500.

But you're right, in the OP's scenario, it would be impossible to enforce unless there are witnesses.

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It's been a few years since my business law class, but....

A verbal contract is binding, BUT you must have offer, acceptance and consideration. Consideration does not mean "equivalent value" but it does mean that one party has performed their end of the deal at least in part. In our example, consideration would be the buyer making a payment -- handing cash to the seller. The seller is then bound to hand over the gun.

Just having an agreement on price is not binding on either party until something of value has changed hands.

If you and I agree on the phone for you to buy my gun for $500, and before you come over some guy gives me $600 for it, you can't sue me for breach of contract because you never paid me anything. We only had offer and acceptance, but not consideration.

^^^ To make it binding one must also have some form of record and/or witnesses and/or both parties must tell the truth and nothing but. Otherwise it's all hearsay... he said/she said.

To make it binding one must also have some form of record and/or witnesses and/or both parties must tell the truth and nothing but. Otherwise it's all hearsay... he said/she said.

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Well, it is still legally biding without record, but you'll have a hard time getting a court to enforce it without some evidence of the deal. That's why you should always get a receipt when you hand over cash.

^^^ That's why you should always say, "I promise to pay, as agreed, "IF" all other factors are as agreed. At that point, opinions rule... and mean nothing/everything... effectively voiding the verbal contract if one party disagrees with assessments.

Spats McGee said:

It's also worth noting that a "promise to pay" can also be the consideration in contract formation. IOW, it's not strictly necessary that the cash or merchandise be physically handed over before a contract is formed.

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............and as been said many a time, "a oral contract is only worth the paper it's written on".


I agree, in the OP's case, a binding contract would be hard to prove, and for the OP, not worth the time and effort to do so. He still has his firearm and it is still for sale. If he did not turn down another sale, he has no monetary loss other than the gas for his trip to meet the potential buyer. I was always taught that a man is as only as good as his word. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many folks. To many, honor means nuttin' compared to a few bucks. Lying straight faced in hopes that an honest or sympathetic person will fall for your story is now a norm. This is how I see this scenario. No other cash on his person? Who goes across town to buy a present for $500 and doesn't have another dime anywhere on their person....or a checkbook? I'm bettin' somewhere in the car there was more cash and a checkbook.

If you don't like the way people negotiate, etc

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Apparantly you're on the side of the person in the OP's post who tried to cheat him.

No, I don't like such people. And that's not negotiating. They had already negotiated the price. The buyer just tried to lie his way into saving a mere $25.

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Sunnyslopes out.

All the talk of verbal contracts.... who cares? Is that relevant in the real world?

Are you honestly going to take Joe Schmoe who you met on the internet or over the phone to court because he offered you $50 less than you want for a used Glock? I doubt it.

Come on gents... just pack it up and move on.

You can negotiate all you want. If someone outright offers me $500 for a used Glock, generally I'd take it. I bought an M1 Garand the tag price of which was $925. I handed the guy $940, and he couldn't make change, so he handed me $20 back. That's one thing.

With that said, I have a 1911 I was going to sell, thought I had an agreed to price of $575, and the person I was going to sell it to came back at me with $450, which I turned down. That's a whole different animal. Bottom line is, when there's no deal, there's no deal.

I will never finalize a deal without seeing the merchandise in question, however I will ask the seller if the asking price is his bottom dollar upon seeing it and if so and I think merch. is fairly priced will pay asking for it. This is only good business as most times the price can be negotiated.

I have no problem with someone trying to re negotiate price. I do it all the time. The problem is with refusing to pay the original price if the lower offer is refused.

gym said:

Of course not. But the Shmowes sometimes will take you to court. If he's ballsy enough to pull that sort of crap in the first place what makes you think he won't take you to small claims court. These types of people have nothing better to do. No one is really that interested in the money, it's more the pitiful excuse for a human being that annoys most.

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Have you ever heard of a case of that? Especially if he agreed on a price, then tried to yank the rug out from under you when you were actually there to complete a sale? As far as I'm concerned, he can try it... and he can have a good time trying to guess my last name and where to have the papers served to me while he's at it.

I guess maybe you've just come across some bigger idgits than I have.
But that's why I adopted my "never deal with an idiot" rule. Generally, if the other party spells like a fourth grader who's eaten one too many boogers or doesn't know what his gun is beyond a "Remington 30 '06", I know that no amount of money is worth the aggravation.


Also, I'm not targeting this at the OP, but I do understand the cases where you show up and a gun isn't as described. Wouldn't blame someone for trying to renegotiate that or just walking away. I went to look at a 10/22 last year that had been left in a boat and rusted for months - the seller didn't disclose that until I was there looking at a rusty rifle with finish flaking off the stock. Since I was new to the area and not part of the culture, I think the guy was trying to take advantage of my perceived inexperience... but I know guns. I passed.

slumlord44 said:

I have no problem with someone trying to re negotiate price. I do it all the time. The problem is with refusing to pay the original price if the lower offer is refused.

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No, the problem is agreeing on a price and then trying to change the deal later.

DammitBoy said:

No, the problem is agreeing on a price and then trying to change the deal later.

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Who agrees on a price for a gun they can't see in person though?
In cases where I've bought online done that, but if I'm meeting the seller somewhere, I'm at least looking it over before I'm making an offer or deciding if I'm giving his asking price. No way I'd feel obligated to buy if a seller shows up up a gun that's missing parts or has a timing problem or some other issue that I couldn't see from pictures.

Goon, you're 100% right. The simple fact of the matter is that the negotiations are not complete until each party is done negotiating! Sometimes a deal is made and sometimes a deal is not made. And there are a million things that could queer the deal at any time! Once the money and the item change hands, that is your notice that the deal is done.

With respect to the OP story, I already said earlier that I thought his buyer sounded like a worm. Based on the OP story the buyer tried to trick the OP into taking $25 less by hoping he did not count the money. That's not cool and that is worm-like behavior.

But what if the buyer had to take his kid to the dentist and there was a $25 copay? Could he not then approach the seller and offer $25 less? I am totally OK with that. I'm OK with people changing their minds. That does not mean that there is an issue with that individuals integrity. Also, the whole "verbal/oral contract" stuff is nonsense. Even if it IS in the books somewhere, that kind of thing is something thing that you cannot prove, you cannot enforce, and is totally moot.

Happy negotiating, everybody! Get a good deal!

What it boils down is we have two different group of buyers and sellers.

The first group are the CarMax buyers and sellers. They either don't how or don't like negotiating prices. Just tell me how much it is and I'll pay it.

The second group thinks everything is negotiable until the ink is signed on the contract or money has changed hands.

Reading the posts it is the CarMax group doing the complaining.

I brought a gun for my wife for Christmas. The dealer wanted $500 & I offered $400. Salesman came back, said my offer was too low and they couldn't lower the price.

How many realize that the deductable portion of your medical bill that the insurance company is often negotiable with your health care provider? I have had as much as 50% knocked off the part I owe. You don't know if you can get a better deal until you keep trying.

Oh you remember that $500 gun they couldn't lower the price on. Well I brought it for $450.

Ah, so you bought it for the price agreed upon, unlike in the OP's example where the buyer tried to get it for less than the price agreed upon.