IL CC Permit applications approved - it's starting

You know people who have their permit in their hand????

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No, sorry, I worded that poorly. I should have said I learned of people who had applied after me get the approval of their application before me.

I don't think anyone has one in hand yet.

I just checked my mailbox twice and it hasn't come in the mail yet...

I predicted the first batch gets mailed Feb 6.

We have a choice for now, at least.

I'll feel better once other folks who didn't submit fingerprints get an approval.

I also expect that it won't be optional when it's time to renew.

UpperAtmosphere said:

We have a choice for now, at least.

I'll feel better once other folks who didn't submit fingerprints get an approval.

I also expect that it won't be optional when it's time to renew.

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Who knows what will happen in 5 years. Worry about it then.

Once they are generating permits in the allotted time without prints, they will have a hard time explaining why they are needed at all. Like other states that finally allowed CCW, time will make the process easier. Just need to get the paranoia factor to dissipate. It always does.

Whoa.. a little SNAFU with the system.

http://www.centralillinoisproud.com...licant-logs-in/d/story/89ChmGyY5E2KR0i2pKcvmA

The Illinois State Police Department is investigating a computer glitch that’s putting some concealed carry applicant information in the wrong hands. When some applicants log in to the website, they’re finding another person’s photo, address, and phone number, along with other personal information. A Tazewell County man is dealing with this firsthand.

Instead of his information, Dustin sees a 62-year-old man from Shipman, Ill. He said, “"It was basically all of their pertinent information minus the credit card number they paid for it with."

For security reasons, we’re not disclosing this man’s name. But on what is supposed to be Dustin’s secure webpage is another man’s CDL License number, his FOID card number, his birth date and address history for the last 10 years.

Holzwarth said, “It happens every time I login. It's the same guy. Every single time. It's not me. And I have all of his information.”

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Trent - what do you think this phrase means?

A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm...

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does it matter if the firearm is loaded?

does it matter if the firearm is cased?

what if it is unloaded and encased?

does it matter if it is a handgun or a long gun?

does it only apply to licensees?

does the phrase "under this act" make it really mean that a licensee shall not carry a loaded, uncased, and concealed handgun...?

ilbob said:

Trent - what do you think this phrase means?

does it matter if the firearm is loaded?

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No, either way is prohibited.

does it matter if the firearm is cased?

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No, the prohibition applies to the firearm and licensee, regardless of it's state.

does it matter if it is a handgun or a long gun?

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No, the term firearm is a legal definition that includes any type of gun.

does it only apply to licensees?

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Yes, it does. However, if you are not a licensee then you'll fall under the more general language of Unlawful Use of Weapons and Aggravated Unlawful Use of Weapons; which carry far stricter and more serious punishments. (Claiming those are unconstitutional won't help your cause; it'd have to go through the courts again to find out if the MODIFIED statutes post-CCW are still unconstitutional. Since there is now a right to carry in IL, I doubt you'd have sufficient grounds to get it dismissed under intermediate scrutiny.)

does the phrase "under this act" make it mean that a licensee shall not carry a loaded, uncased, and concealed handgun...?

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No the full language is:

Section 65. Prohibited areas.
(a) A licensee under this Act shall not knowingly carry a firearm on or into:

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"Under this Act" is declarative language to refer to the licensee; licensee is defined as:

"Licensee" means a person issued a license to carry a concealed handgun.

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The prohibition is on ANY guns on or into to the prohibited areas, by a licensee.

If you aren't a licensee it doesn't apply, but you can (and will) get charged under UUW/AUUW, which carry first offenses of various Felony charges; instead of first offenses of Misdemeanor charges...

I'm not a laywer, BTW. So this isn't legal advice. And this is MY interpretation of how the law is written. A judge, prosecutor, or jury may find a different perspective.

pretty much the way i see it as well.

I can understand why you were banned from IllinoisCarry.

believing the law means what it actually says is a banning offense there.

"Carry" and "transport" are two distinctly different modes as it related to having a firearm in your possession in IL.
The FCCL act only applies to "carry" of a handgun.
If a firearm is unloaded and in a "case" it is not being "carried", it is being "transported".
This differentiation was discussed in the days leading up to the passage of the FCCL act on the floor of the IL legislature.
It is completely consistent with all of the IL case law, including the findings of the IL Supreme Court.

If you are in possession of a loaded, uncased handgun, you are in fact "carrying" that firearm. You need to comply with the provisions of the FCCL law.
If you are in possession of an unloaded, "cased" firearm, you are in fact "transporting" that firearm and you need to comply with the provisions of the UUW law.

stargeezer said:

Afraid they are going to change their mind?? Well, this IS Illinois, but I don't think you are going to get closer to carry by waiting. Or are you going to file the paper form?

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Nahhhh...they won't change their mind. They just figured out that Illinois stands to make millions of dollars in this whole deal now.

I'm waiting because unless I can get into classes during the weekend I'll have to get time off from work and do it during the work week days. My employer (my Owners we call them...) have jumped thru many hoops to keep me chained here.

It'll be a while until I get the chains worked loose....:banghead:

VooDoo

wildbilll said:

"Carry" and "transport" are two distinctly different modes as it related to having a firearm in your possession in IL.
The FCCL act only applies to "carry" of a handgun.
If a firearm is unloaded and in a "case" it is not being "carried", it is being "transported".
This differentiation was discussed in the days leading up to the passage of the FCCL act on the floor of the IL legislature.
It is completely consistent with all of the IL case law, including the findings of the IL Supreme Court.

If you are in possession of a loaded, uncased handgun, you are in fact "carrying" that firearm. You need to comply with the provisions of the FCCL law.
If you are in possession of an unloaded, "cased" firearm, you are in fact "transporting" that firearm and you need to comply with the provisions of the UUW law.

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How do you square that interpretation with what the FCCA actually says?

This is an especially revealing passage.

Section 10.
...
(g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the
licensee carries a concealed firearm except:
...
(3) when the handgun is broken down in a
non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or
is unloaded and enclosed in a case.

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The very language of the FCCA specifically refers to having an unloaded and encased handgun as being carried.

There is a huge problem with claiming that transport and carry are completely separate things. If they are, Chicago can ban carry because only transportation of firearms is preempted in the law.

Here is what the law actually says about what is preempted.

Section 90. Preemption.
The regulation, licensing, possession, registration, and
transportation of handguns and ammunition for handguns by
licensees are exclusive powers and functions of the State.

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Does not say anything at all about carry. So if they are two different things, it can't be preempted so Chicago can ban it.

A lot of people have discussed a lot of things. None of that matters one iota. What matters is what the law that actually passed actually says.

One last thing for you to ponder. Another thing the law actually says.

Section 10
...
(c)...A license shall permit the licensee to:
(1) carry a loaded or unloaded concealed firearm, fully
concealed or partially concealed, on or about his or her
person; and

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No requirement whatsoever that the firearm has to be loaded to be considered carry. None whatsoever. Nothing about how it is carried or a prohibition on carrying it in some kind of case.

How could the supreme court of IL possibly have ruled on anything in the FCCA since there are no FCCL issued yet?

One more question for you to ponder. If only the FCCA and the UUW act regulate how firearms are carried and/or transported in IL, how do you square that with the flat out 100% ban on mere possession of a firearm on public property found in 720 ILCS 5/21-6? Are you claiming that while transporting through public property you are not in possession of it, so it is OK to transport on public property if you do not have a FCCL?

pretty much the way i see it as well.

I can understand why you were banned from IllinoisCarry.

believing the law means what it actually says is a banning offense there.

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I wasn't banned, per se, just moderated. Anything I post has to be approved by the powers that be, before it shows up in threads. So I don't bother posting anymore.

Censoring people is censorship - it's their right, for sure, but it also derails full and open discussion of a topic when you censor any opposing viewpoints.

THR is much more to my liking. If I post something stupid, I fully expect people to jump on the bandwagon and set me right. It's part of the learning process. It's a necessary part of reaching truth - having an open dialog, expressing your opinions, taking feedback, refining your viewpoints (or reinforcing them), and learning.

If you take away people's abilities to converse openly, and only allow "acceptable" views to be presented, it skews the entire direction that every conversation takes.

wildbilll said:

"Carry" and "transport" are two distinctly different modes as it related to having a firearm in your possession in IL.
The FCCL act only applies to "carry" of a handgun.
If a firearm is unloaded and in a "case" it is not being "carried", it is being "transported".

This differentiation was discussed in the days leading up to the passage of the FCCL act on the floor of the IL legislature.
It is completely consistent with all of the IL case law, including the findings of the IL Supreme Court.

If you are in possession of a loaded, uncased handgun, you are in fact "carrying" that firearm. You need to comply with the provisions of the FCCL law.
If you are in possession of an unloaded, "cased" firearm, you are in fact "transporting" that firearm and you need to comply with the provisions of the UUW law.

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I can see where you are coming from here; but the new FCCL law DOES define carry quite clearly:

(c) A license shall be valid throughout the State for a
period of 5 years from the date of issuance. A license shall
permit the licensee to:
(1) carry a loaded or unloaded concealed firearm, fully
concealed or partially concealed, on or about his or her
person; and
(2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded concealed
firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle.

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Emphasis added. A firearm unloaded in a case carried on your person is CONCEALED, and will meet the definition outlined in the FCCL.

If you carry an UNLOADED CASED firearm in to a School or other prohibited place, prepare to spend time in jail. You aren't TRANSPORTING a firearm at that point. You are CARRYING it.

Trent said:

If you carry an UNLOADED CASED firearm in to a School or other prohibited place, prepare to spend time in jail. You aren't TRANSPORTING a firearm at that point. You are CARRYING it.

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Off the top of my head.

I think you are only in violation of the FCCA if you have been issued a FCCL. A class B misdemeanor, the same penalty if it is loaded and holstered.

No FCCL and it is a class A misdemeanor violation of 720 ILCS 5/21-6 if it is public property like a school.

I think it is a class 4 felony violation of the UUW act to bring it to a bar if you do not have a FCCL.

Not illegal in a few places like a mall w/o a FCCL regardless of whether it is posted or not, but violates the FCCA if it is posted and you have a FCCL.

But, IANAL.

Who is the first THR member to get an Illinois concealed carry permit?

I think CountZero was approved a few hours before I was.

Nobody's really 'gotten' one yet. Some folks are showing 'approved' on the website, but there are no (AFAIK) 'permits in hand' at this point, and nobody really knows how long between permits getting approved and permits getting sent will be.

Larry

No, there's no permits in hand, and the "rumor" (facilitated recently by T. Vandermyde) is that the printing equipment and card stock aren't even ready yet. (Why they can't re-use FOID equipment is beyond me.. maybe it's booked full time)

Still not going to stop me from beating a path to my mailbox every day to check.

feb 6!

I hope to see the full 400,000 by years end for the honest and good folks of Illinois. I also hope they remember who to vote for when the time comes so their rights are preserved as well and not sought to be destroyed by the anti crowd.

Also I hope to see crime in Chicago and Illinois at large go down as well so no lying piece of filth anti can say that CCW is causing blood in the streets. You know like Cuomo, Bloomberg, (Can we say Jesse Jackson yet?) etc..

I tried logging on to the ISP website to check the status of my application and discovered I can't access the website. All I get is, " Please wait while you are authenticated to the server". Anyone else having this problem?

I tried logging on to the ISP website to check the status of my application and discovered I can't access the website. All I get is, " Please wait while you are authenticated to the server". Anyone else having this problem?

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Oh yes, very much so. I am having this problem right now. I'll try later in the day...

One of my work compatriots was complaining of the same thing. I was able to check my status sometime over the weekend, but that's been about it.

Mainly wanted to check and see if my status had been changed to "Black Helicopters En Route."

I'll concern myself with checking more frequently next month.