White House Petition To Rescind Norinco Ban?

It seems all the pro gun petitions are pretty much ignored

fiddleharp said:

If there was a petition on the White House website asking to have the Clinton-Era ban on the importation of Norinco arms and ammunition rescinded, would you sign it?

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No.

A.) On-line petitions are not a valid way to leverage your social capital since there is no mechanism (legal or otherwise) in place to transubstantiate your virtual signature into real power.

B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest.

Sam Cade said:

B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest.

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Maybe a bit of competition from Norinco will force Springfield Armory to make proper M1A's at a reasonable price.

Yup But from past experience.. nobody would so much as acknowledge it as having ever been received or heard of .

dmancornell said:

Maybe a bit of competition from Norinco will force Springfield Armory to make proper M1A's at a reasonable price.

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I think it might be is wishful thinking to hope that a small scale manufacturer and importer like Springfield Armory Inc. could compete with one of the largest defense corporations on the planet.

Maybe when Obama is out we might have a chance.

Lol you can petition the White House to enforce the laws and the constitution while you're at it; let us know what they say.

I'm sure President Palin will rescind the ban day one

The White house is under no obligation to do anything about a petition, especially a virtual one, let alone even acknowledge it exists. 300 million people could sign that petition and would make no difference. And to be blunt, the common populace is rather simple. More people signed a whitehouse.gov petition to build a Death Star than most of the gun rights petitions on the site.

"B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest."

Apparently they don't have enough of our money yet, if they can't force Obama to give them another route to our pockets (and undercut our arms industry at the same time)

Since we're not the best terms in the US, I don't really follow Norinco. I know they copy lots of designs decently and are of course cost competitive; do they also still make China's military arms, and have they come up with any cool original designs lately? I know China has some cool Q-something or other bullpup rifle they use.

"More people signed a whitehouse.gov petition to build a Death Star than most of the gun rights petitions on the site."
Who says we're not?
"...let alone even acknowledge it exists."


TCB

For this proposition or any one of a bunch of reasonable actions to succeed... we're going to need more than one election cycle. Thank heavens we at least get the chance to do so....

November 2014 should be on everyone's radar (and I'm not advocating any particular side of the equation...). get out and vote -tell your neighbors why you believe in the principles that you need to see in place in our government....

I'll get down off of my soapbox now. (moderators feel free to delete this if inppropriate without comment).

dmancornell said:

Maybe a bit of competition from Norinco will force Springfield Armory to make proper M1A's at a reasonable price.

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What is "off" about Springfield's M1As?

It's not a ban, it's a trade treaty provision built into the wording. Therefore, no ban can be rescinded.

And, it would likely mean them importing AR15's for the fabulous price of $400 MSRP retail. Which would drive American made products off the lower rungs of the price tier. S&W would likely be considered "pricey," and the model discontinued. Sales overall would go up, sure, a lot of smaller makers would go out of business. The number of people jumping into the market would skyrocket, and the Kabooms and complaints of malfunctions would cause a big decrease in the reputation of the AR as a shooting platform.

It works because it's tuned to one specific load, everybody would be shooting all sorts of junk thru it and complaining the gun was at fault.

Why not just petition KelTec to make a poly AR? We'd get the same results from the first generation, fluffing and buffing our way thru the Beta test versions getting churned out. The lack of volume production would protect a lot buyers until they get the 2gen version sorted, and we could start another online forum discussing our loyalty to poor quality control and overzealous marketing.

Really. I enjoyed my P3AT from Ruger, and I hear they got the trigger right on the next generation.

If you can't read tongue in cheek there, I'll lay it right out - the only people who want cheap junk AR's are those who don't understand how many jobs we have already lost to foreign imports. But then again, they are responding to their lack of pay - because the plant shut down and nobody buys the stuff they used to make anymore. We revere the cheap price, not the quality.

I've had a couple of MAK-90's that ran perfectly. Calling them junk is idiocy.
The AK was meant to be inexpensive and reliable. They are. As to the petition, that's idiocy.

Such a petition with this White House would be an exercise in futility. Why waste your time?

fiddleharp said:

If there was a petition on the White House website asking to have the Clinton-Era ban on the importation of Norinco arms and ammunition rescinded, would you sign it?

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No, as it would be a complete waste of time ... for everyone.

Sam Cade said:

No.

A.) On-line petitions are not a valid way to leverage your social capital since there is no mechanism (legal or otherwise) in place to transubstantiate your virtual signature into real power.

B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest.

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That is great thinking I love paying ten times more for guns and ammo and not even getting 22 ammo. I guess you do not mind them buying our debt keeping us afloat and they got trillions of worthless money. I knew the gun industry was behind banning Norinco. Gives new meaning to the quote from Rockefeller: Competition is a sin

Tommygunn said:

What is "off" about Springfield's M1As?

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The 1600 dollar price. What do you think he means. I have forged norincos and poly techs that shot better then the springfields and paid $350 for them. Why does buying American mean getting robbed and why do so many people like it?

Chinese arms are generally high quality, and don't really compete with anything made in the US. Things have changed greatly in the time since they were imported. Even if imports were allowed, we couldn't import Type 56 AK's, MAK-90's, M14's, steel core ammo, or even most SKS's. They would have to be imported as parts kits, and assembled in the US with enough US sourced parts to satisfy 922r. Add to that their business practices that got Norinco imports stopped in the first place, I see no positives to allowing import.

Tommygunn said:

What is "off" about Springfield's M1As?

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My Scout's front sight screw backed out on its own and the barrel clamped scope rail was canted. Issues I've heard of but have not experienced include mistimed barrels and off-spec receiver scope mounts.

A chromed barrel would be nice too.

"Things have changed greatly in the time since they were imported."
Ah, they keep the machine guns and semi-autos separate, now?

"I've had a couple of MAK-90's that ran perfectly. Calling them junk is idiocy."
Indeed. It's fifty years late for a lot of Americans to stop underestimating the industrial ability of the Chinese. They churn out junk for us when we don't pay them enough (which is usually), and are world leaders at the difficult art of reverse engineering and design application.

They will be soon churning out simplified & improved F22/T50 hybrids (J20) for less than we could ever dream, and that's not counting R&D costs they save through espionage; no small feat, that. Granted, that's assuming their Jinga Tower of a command-economy holds out for another decade.

TCB

Didn't they raise the number of signatures required for a response to 250K after the petition to deport Piers Morgan?

As for me, I have nothing against the Chinese and I shoot foreign ammo when it's available and it works, but I like Americans being able to find work cranking out M&P Sports, PSA AR-15's, and ammunition at the ATK plants. I wouldn't sign a petition either. Let's keep the little bit we still have.

And if you guys don't like Springfield Armory's inability to crank out a good rifle, stop buying them. Buy used M1A's instead. Treat them like I treat Marlin - they'll get it together eventually.

B.) The Communist Chinese have enough of our money and destroying the US American arms industry isn't in our best interest.

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Protecting American manufacturers through some arbitrary laws is not in our best interests either. If you want American manufacturing to be the quality it used to be then they need to have a little fire lit under their feet from competition.

That's how Detroit failed. Not just because of the unions. But because U.S. car makers got too comfy with the fact that people would buy whatever turd rolled off the assembly line just because it had a "Made in the USA" sticker slapped on it. Until people decided they would put up with only so many lemons and went to the imports. Now Detroit is finally realizing that and actually making good cars again.

The gun industry here needs the same medicine.
Sure, if quality is equal then I'll prefer to buy American. Even for a reasonable price premium. But if they think they can just cobble some junk together, say "made in the USA" and call it that. Then frankly they're better off going out of business, so they don't make the rest of American manufacturing look bad.

And calling Chinese guns junk is pretty silly. Rough maybe would be a good word. but so far most of the Chinese guns I've seen or read about have been built like tanks. Hell, Norinco builds a better 870 than Remington does.
Of all the crap China makes, guns seem to be one of the few things they're actually good at.