Cost of 8-day self-defense case: $332,000

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cesiumsponge

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
2,266
Location
Washington
This was a local self-defense case. It wrapped up last month but they finally released the cost of the eight-day trial for the defendant who had three attorneys and expert witnesses: $332,000. Thought this would be a good piece of data for folks wondering what a successful self-defense case might run. The case was questionable enough (firing on a man in a stolen car driving away) to go to court.

http://www.krem.com/news/local/Gail-Gerlachs-defense-costs-estimated-at-332000--260843611.html


In our state of Washington, RCW 9A.16.110(2) requires the state to reimburse legal expenses.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110
 
They should have itemized it.

Curious of the cost of these expert witnesses.
 
$332,000 or life in prison? Sounds like an easy decision to me. You can always make more money.
 
In my state, I would have went to prison AND been 322k in debt.
 
Since the article leaves out details, the owner shot at a car thief who stole the owner's idling vehicle from the driveway, driving away from the owner. The contention is where the homeowner said he believed the driver was making furtive movement consistent to drawing a firearm. The owner engaged the fleeing vehicle and shot one round through the headrest, striking the thief in the head. If claiming self-defense, the burden of proof shifts to the defense, but the level of evidence required is a preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't have any of the court documents. I would be very curious to know if its public domain yet. The case was not big enough to be televised like the Zimmerman case so I don't know what the arguments or strategies were.
 
And this is why my CCW arm is for me and my families protection alone.

If other lives get saved in the process then they can consider that a free bonus.

If not that's the price they assumed to pay for not taking personal responsibility for their protection.

Cold calculating? Probably.

Necessary? Absolutely.

I'm not in the business of bankrupting myself and ruining my families future out of the kindness of my heart to a stranger.

As a side note this story is a prime example of why we don't use deadly force to protect "things". I'm guessing the car that wS getting stolen wasn't worth the better part of HALF A MILLION dollars
 
Decided not to draw argument, looks like its covered. Mods, please delete

Russellc
 
Last edited:
The real news is not the cost of his defense. It is the fact of his acquittal.

The Gerlach case has been discussed here before.
 
The real news is not the cost of his defense. It is the fact of his acquittal.

Indeed.

While I feel he was justified in the shoot, its extremely hard to claim self defense for shooting someone in the back of the head, fleeing in a vehicle....
 
Ditto. Actually the owner would have only been out the deductible on the insurance which is why I have replacement value insurance on my home and contents.
Well, you might want to check with your provider. I believe some policies don't cover you for squat if you leave the keys in the car. That's one of the first things they will ask you.

I don't know for sure, but this might be in response to insurance scams, rather than just trying to cut costs of covering careless people.
 
I think the cost to the state could have been much higher, IF the thief had been caught, convicted, and incarcerated. He might have had a trial. Even if he pled out, it can cost well over $100,000 a year just to keep someone in jail. In a sick and twisted way, the shooter is a martyr. He took the law into his own hands. He identified and apprehended a car thief. And he just might have saved the taxpayers some money.

If you send him to jail, he might pay for the defense. But now taxpayers are paying to keep him incarcerated. And he's no longer working at his job and paying income tax. It's better he is free, even if he was wrong... so long as he only shoots at people that try to steal his car (and who might conceivably make gestures as if they're drawing a gun, of course!). If he lived in my town, I wouldn't be too twisted up, as long as this was his only "character flaw."

And a civil suit might still be on the table. The shooter could be paying for his own justice, in the end. And it could be more spendy than the defense bill.
 
Last edited:
I have an insurance policy from a company called "Second Call Defense". They are underwritten by the same big insurance company as all of the NRA policies.
Basically, if I am involved in a self defense shooting, it covers legal defense against criminal and civil suits......including civil damages up to a million dollars (if I remember correctly). Also covers bail up to $250,000.
It costs me $36 a month.
Here in CA, you can be brought up on charges by an ambitious DA, even if it is clear cut. The family of the "victim" can even sue you if you were cleared of criminal wrongdoing.
I have a business to run and a family to provide for. The $36 is money well spent, IMO.

Then again, you won't see me shooting at someone getting away with my vehicle either.
 
Sol said:
They should have itemized it.

Curious of the cost of these expert witnesses.

Done!

$25,000 per expert witness.
Richard Lee, head counsel, 600 hours, $170,000
co-counsel Dave Stevens $100,000-125,000
associate counsel $1,000
fundraising $8,000

Richard Lee estimates prosecution will dispute the bill and it might take up to two years to recover the cost from the state.

Self-defense ain't cheap folks. Make sure it's worth it! (ie, is it worth the value of the stuff and things being stolen?)
http://www.krem.com/home/Spokane-taxpayers-to-pay-for-Gerlachs-defense-255569091.html
 
Shooting at vehicles....

Shooting at moving vehicles can be tricky.
I didn't read all the details yet, but to use deadly force against a driver/vehicle can be hard to defend-justify.
Even sworn LE officers get into huge jams over it.
The Pittsburgh Bureau of Police modified the dept policy re: lethal force & vehicles after a shooting incident where multiple officers shot .40 duty weapons at a driver.
A group of narcotics detectives(Orange County FL Sheriffs) settled out of court in a wrongful death action even though they were cleared of wrong-doing & faced no formal charges. :rolleyes:
A armed(G) security guard in my metro area was just busted for shooting a woman who refused to stop when prevented from entering a apt complex.
He may be let off after a trial but I'm sure it will be a huge legal mess.

Armed citizens must understand the use of force laws & know that shooting at cars or events that involve property crimes may not be allowed where they live.
As noted, a media seeking DA or State Atty's Office prosecutor may push the case even though it will fall apart in court.
Is it fair? No.
But that is the way the US justice system works.
 
Jury deliberated for only 4 hours. This follow-up article does a decent job to recap events on each of the 7 days of trial plus the deliberations.

"A witness said he saw Kaluza-Graham in the vehicle with his hands in the air the moment after he heard the gun shot and saw the SUV race by him."

The wife also makes the same claim.

http://www.krem.com/home/Jury-selection-enters-day-2-253408541.html
 
Last edited:
Interesting, I heard nothing of this case, but i live on the wet side. I think the only time I would fire on my car being stolen is when it is loaded with guns, firearms, and ammo. Other then that I can replace a car.
 
This illustrates why nobody wants to be the "test case" in any firearm related charge involving questionable laws.
 
What are the chances the legal and witness bills were more than normal since there was the chance the state was going to pay them?

In class action suits attys regularly submit huge bills, the courts regularly knock them down.
 
The family of the "victim" can even sue you if you were cleared of criminal wrongdoing.

Indeed, anyone remember a guy named OJ?
 
If they're going to try suing you in civil court, they're going to say you showed negligence or it was accidental, so they can tap your homeowner's insurance. They don't come after your personal finances unless you're particularly wealthy.

Your defense is pretty simple, and it's the same you used in a criminal court of law. Justifiable homicide isn't an accident. You purposely used lethal force, and that lethal force was lawfully justifiable. It was no accident or negligence. Therefore, homeowner's won't pay out. The lawyer loses the fiscal incentive he is hoping to cash in on. Without a strong case, most lawyers won't even attempt it, especially if you were absolved of wrongdoing in a criminal court.

Their lawyer is going to really chew on that for a while and see if they can mount an effective case against you using preponderance of evidence to prove you were negligent in a civil court so they can tap your homeowner's policy. While the civil court angle is a real possibility, it's often NOT the case. "But OJ" does not mean everyone gets dragged to civil court over a legitimate self-defense case as proven in criminal court. FBI UCR shows 720 justifiable homicides for 2012. I can tell you there weren't 720 follow-up civil court cases.

The ACLDN distributed a write-up on the case involving a man named larry Hickey. I've asked him about the incident and he was grateful that everything worked out in the end, but he was tried twice in a criminal court and once in a civil court. You might find the retelling of his tale very interesting. In the criminal trials, they tried to say he charged out on the street before he shot the two aggressors, to paint him as an aggressor. In the civil trial, they tried to say he shot two aggressors on his property, so they could tap his homeowner's insurance. Also well-worth the read because of all the botched investigative work which was blatantly overlooked, and exactly what you can expect if you go through such a trial.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey Booklet.pdf
 
I think for shooting someone in this circumstance, he got off cheap.
Now if the guy was trying to run him down, its another story.
 
Hello to all, first time posting on THR after much time lurking on the sidelines.

Regarding the Gerlach self defense shooting, the State of Washington did not have any statutes in effect at the time permitting the use of deadly force to protect personal property such as the defendant's automobile, which the deceased attempted to drive off in while Gerlach was outside the vehicle.

Given the above, and the fact that the stolen auto was being driven away from Gerlach, Gerlach's acquittal after shooting the perpetrator in the back of the head is legally absurd and utterly indefensible.

The verdict is also a prima facie case of jury nullification in light of the public's increasing awareness that citizens should be able to protect their property.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/apr/19/verdict-reflects-changing-times/

A similar case with like sentiments widely held by the local public was tossed by the DA recently in New Orleans, LA, and will not be tried: http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/05/das_office_declines_to_prosecu.html
 
Thanks for the first post!

In one of the articles I linked, it gives a rundown on the trial on each day, and the defense appears to have mounted an affirmative defense on the grounds of a belief that the defendant felt in immediate danger of his life due to supposed furtive movement by the deceased, which was argued as consistent with raising a gun towards him. The wife testified the same thing, but she would not be an unbiased party.

However, one of the neighbors was an eyewitness called to the stand, and he testify to the effect of seeing the thief's hand come upwards in a manner that the defendant interpreted as a motion of raising a firearm.

"A witness said he saw Kaluza-Graham in the vehicle with his hands in the air the moment after he heard the gun shot and saw the SUV race by him."

http://www.krem.com/home/Jury-selection-enters-day-2-253408541.html

Seeing as all we have are second-hand reports through the media, I don't know if the defense made a good case or it was straight jury nullification. Are juries today even instructed that they have the power to nullify?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top