What on earth is a Navy Arms Siamese Mauser .45-70?

Its a Mauser 98 chambered in 45-70..... Thats really about it.

Much of the time in reloading, they are rated to the same pressures that a Ruger #1 can handle.

The Siamese Mauser M98 was manufactured by Japan in the early 1900's by contract for the Siamese government, and it was unique by having a slanted magazine that was designed to feed rimmed cartridges, and avoid rim lock. They carry the chrysanthemum stamp of the Koishikawa Arsenal.

Navy Arms converted a bunch of them to handle the 45-70 round, and they could handle heavy bolt action loads.


NCsmitty

Yeah, these are sleepers. Had one years ago and kick myself for selling it.

Willie

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They also have gigantic breechfaces (the actual reason for the 45-70 rechambering). I think they originally shot some sort of rimmed 8mm round (Lebel?). They can supposedly carry cartridges based on 50-90, like 50 Alaskan

TCB

Willie Sutton said:

Yeah, these are sleepers. Had one years ago and kick myself for selling it.

Willie

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And it kicked you for shooting it.

There was one in a pawn shop a couple of years ago, but I didn't have the money at the time to get it. It wasn't a Navy Arms conversion, but was in great shape. I want one.

Matt

This was a custom gunsmith job, very popular in Alaska, even before Navy Arms did their conversion. Ken Waters wrote glowingly about the converted guns. I wanted one for years.

Mike

Original round was an 8x52R not to be confused with the 8mm Lebel. Popular for 30-40 conversions as well. Often have problems feeding the last round of 45-70. Magazine holds 4 if I recall correctly.

Never saw one in 45-70. but remember a few in .348. I can't find my copy of bolt action rifles by Frank De Hasses but he goes on at some length about the conversion.

It was not a Mauser 98 but a variation of it designed to handle a rimmed cartridge. I had one, converted by E. R. Shaw to handle the 45-70. That went down the road a long time ago. I have recently found another barreled action converted to 45-70. Not sure if I will ever have the time to build it.

The Siamese could also be converted to other rimmed cartridges, 348 Winchester (and wildcats like 50 Alaskan), 303 Enfield, 30-40 and similar cartridges. I wish the one I had or the one I have was cut for the 405 Winchester. I prefer it to the 45-70.

Many many moons ago,,,

Many many moons ago,,,
When I was a young Airman,,,
I was stationed in Pinedale, Wyoming,,,
This would have been back in the year 1975.

The Air Force had a small detachment there,,,
And the detachment had a sanctioned Rod & Gun Club.

There were bolt action 45-70's on the surplus market then,,,
Monstrous rifles that were supposedly Chinese in origin,,,
Several of the guys ordered these through the club.

I almost talked myself into buying one of them,,,
But the $150 or so was too dear to me at that time.

I've posted here asking about these rifles,,,
No one could give me the true skinny on them,,,
But they were in very good shape and shot pretty well.

I don't recall anyone mentioning that they were modified,,,
To me they looked like stock military rifles,,,
Except for the fact that they were HUGE.

I wonder if we are referring to the same thing.

Aarond

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The Siamese Mauser is no larger than a regular '98.
But for some reason almost all the caliber conversions come out as great big guns. The Navy Arms sweatshop conversion just looks like a caveman's club. Even the nice gunsmith and DIY jobs seem to have been determined to take no wood off the sporter stock blank.

The most unusual one I saw was a varmint rifle. It was chambered for a .30-40 Krag case that had been run into a .22-250 die. Not exactly a .22-250 Rimmed, but close enough.

If you asked nicely, Mauser - Oberndorf would make you an action with slanted magazine for rimmed cartridges. Rigby had them make actions for their .400-.350 Express before moving on to the rimless .350 Magnum.

I looked at this thread because it jarred a distant memory.

I recall a Guns Magazine article written by Hoyt Axton. I am pretty sure he reviewed the rifle in question in the early 80's.

He mentioned that it greatly reduced the distance the deer runs after being shot, this being important to him as I believe his health was failing at that time.

He also mentioned that the 45-70 in heavy cover would cut and stack some firewood for camp.

Back in the 70s I was apprenticing in a gun shop. We made a few of these in 45-70 and they were a beautiful rifle when we were done with them.

They are a super strong action with a big bolt face and a slanted magazine especially made to reliably feed a rimmed cartridge.

Back then they were popular as a poor mans Brown Bear rifle since they could be loaded up like a 458 Win Mag. ( although I think we also made a couple in 7,62x54 Russian for somebody..)

We were buying the complete mil-surp rifle back then for $16 to $18 and selling the completed new-rifle for around $350 - $400, with a new barrel, blue job and a Fajen or Bishop stock. Most had Williams peep sights installed.

There are a few sub-variants, all of which were made in Japan with an agreement with Mauser Company in Germany.

You need to be careful because many are hack-jobs not built by competent gunsmiths and they have feeding issues.

Not sure if we're speaking of the same thing, but I've got a 25 Krag built off of an ol' Siamese Mauser. My dad built it for me years ago. It's a great shooter, and I should shoot it more. That's the gun that got me into reloading, since when's the last time you saw 25 Krag on the shelves at Wal-Mart!

If anyone is interested (and it doesn't veer off of the OP's thread too much) I can get a pic of it and post it.

C5rider said:

Not sure if we're speaking of the same thing, but I've got a 25 Krag built off of an ol' Siamese Mauser. My dad built it for me years ago. It's a great shooter, and I should shoot it more. That's the gun that got me into reloading, since when's the last time you saw 25 Krag on the shelves at Wal-Mart!

If anyone is interested (and it doesn't veer off of the OP's thread too much) I can get a pic of it and post it.

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Would love to see it! 25 Krag is a fantastic zipper. Wasn't Ackley a huge fan?

My 25 Krag

Here ya go RPRNY.

This was built and given to me by my dad. He used to build guns for several folks when we lived in PA, quite a few years ago in the Philadelphia area. He gave each one of the kids a gun. This is the gun that got me into reloading, as you can't get factory ammo. I shoot it a little, but probably not as much as I should.

it's got a Leupold Vari-x II scope on it. Hope you like it!

Responded in the other thread. Great present from Dad. Great looking rifle in a cool wildcat!

They prefer to be called "Conjoined Mausers."

Better luck next time.

I see what you did there!

C5rider said:

Here ya go RPRNY.

This was built and given to me by my dad. He used to build guns for several folks when we lived in PA, quite a few years ago in the Philadelphia area. He gave each one of the kids a gun. This is the gun that got me into reloading, as you can't get factory ammo. I shoot it a little, but probably not as much as I should.

it's got a Leupold Vari-x II scope on it. Hope you like it!

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Gets my vote of approval!