Model 93 Mauser - modified or not?

sixshooter said:

I'm trying to determine if my Mauser has been modified or not.



Does the space between the front of the rear sight and the stock mean anything?

Edit: I did a little research just now, and apparently this means that it's been rechambered for .308. Any concerns here? Any precautions to take?

Click to expand...

What information are you relying on that tells you it has been rechambered to .308 (Assuming 308 Win)?

Your best bet would be to take it to a qualified gunsmith and have them make the determinations.

As for the stock gap at the front of the rear sight, could mean something, then again might not.

If it has indeed been rechambered to 308 Win, be very careful about running hot loads through it. The model 93 cocked on close and doesn't tolerate higher pressure like most of the later model 98s do.

sixshooter said:

I read that all the modified guns had that space on a website (http://masterton.us/Unmarked1916). Scroll way down the page to read about the mods (under "The 7.62 Conversions", item 3).

Might not be .308, but definitely modified. I'll be talking to a gunsmith before I ever put a round in it for sure. I've got my dad's '06 or 300 H&H if I need to shoot anything. This piece is one I just acquired and I'm trying to figure it out. It can be a wall-hanger if that's all it's good for.

Click to expand...

I see... interesting.

Have you completely disassembled it? Depending on when/if it was rebarreled, seems like you might be able to tell just by looking at the barrel and markings (or lack thereof) under the stock.

Regardless, I agree and reiterate, take it to a gunsmith and see what they tell you. Hopefully you'll have more than a wall-hanger.

If you don't have a micrometer on hand, but you do have 30-06 ammo on hand, you can do a comparison of the muzzle diameter vs your '06. 7mm to 7.62 should be pretty easy to see.

Also, take a picture of where the barrel meets the receiver both top and bottom, with the stock on and removed... that should tell us a lot more than your rear sight.

IF it has been modified from the original 7mm - probably to 7,62 CETME like most were - DO NOT shoot .308win through it....but don't just hang it up either...get into reloading, or get one of these.

Thank you, Desidog.
I was deciding what to do with a Spanish 1916 Mauser with a very nice 7.62 CETME barrel. I think that it will be my test bed for cast and powder-coated 7.62x39 reloads... after I install a chamber adapter.

You should be fine shooting 7.62NATO but not commercial 308.

theotherwaldo said:

Thank you, Desidog.
I was deciding what to do with a Spanish 1916 Mauser with a very nice 7.62 CETME barrel. I think that it will be my test bed for cast and powder-coated 7.62x39 reloads... after I install a chamber adapter.

Click to expand...

Let me give you my experiences with a chamber adapter. I have a 1916 SSR in .308. I got one of the adapters from Ace Dube or MCA. When I first installed it it worked fine. After several 100 rounds it got progressively harder to close the bolt on a cartridge. I finally pulled it out. I don't know if it started to shift out. When it was good accuracy was as good as .308 loads. The x39 actuality fed pretty well if you cycled the bolt slow and I really liked the conversion. Good luck.

Any of the smaller variants of the 8MM will most likely chamber. You have to be careful with Mausers. The .308 bullet is too small for a 8mm barrel. Most lileky you can figure out what the gun is chambered for and it's probably marked somewhere.

carbine85 said:

Any of the smaller variants of the 8MM will most likely chamber. You have to be careful with Mausers. The .308 bullet is too small for a 8mm barrel. Most lileky you can figure out what the gun is chambered for and it's probably marked somewhere.

Click to expand...

Um. It's either 7x57 or 7.62x51. It's not 8mm. There were very, very few of those built on either 1893 (spanish) or 1916 actions and they're worth quite a bit of money. That was done in preparation to convert to 8mm mid-WWII. When the 7mm rifles were converted to 7.62x51, they were set back, bored/rifled, and a new chamber cut. The set back is where the gap between the front surface of the rear sight and handguard comes from.

Spain made tons of 8mm rifles, but they were all M98 variants. (M43 and M44). This is definitely not one of those.

To the OP, if you shoot it, stick with 7.62x51-level loads and you should be ok. I know quite a few people who use theirs specifically for shooting cast bullets.

Matt

There is not as much difference between 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester pressures as you seem to think.
Starting loads for .308 are in the same pressure range as full charge 7x57 and that is where you ought to be. Same performance range, too, they are not weak sisters.

Waldo, I recommend you do your powder coating experiments with the rifle as is and not risk screwing it up with one of those inserts. There is a report of one failing in another thread.

Mine is marked CAL 7.62 on the left front of the receiver.

If you have a gunsmith nearby, see what he wants to do a chamber cast. If not, Brownells or Rotometals will sell you the fancy low-melting-point alloy normally used to make chamber casts. A musical instrument shop might also carry it; they use it for repairing some kinds of horns.

You plug the barrel with some patches just ahead of the chamber, stand the rifle on its muzzle, warm the metal in an old pan or tin can, and pour it into the chamber. A funnel helps, and don't get so carried away you overfill the chamber, or it'll be hard to get the excess metal out. Doing your own chamber cast is a bit exotic, but it's not rocket surgery.

Tap the cooled metal out from the muzzle end and use your calipers to get the basic dimensions of the cartridge. Post 'em up here and I'll look up the most likely match for you.

You're looking at a gun that's a century old, and there's no telling what has been done to it in that amount of time. With a chamber cast, you can *know* what caliber and chambering it has now.

You're looking at, oh, about the price of a box of ammo for the chamber casting metal.

It looks to my eye that the barrel was stepped back and re-chambered. My money's on 7,62 CETME (being most common).

When i was referring to checking the bore diameter with 30'06, i meant inserting the bullet end of the cartridge into the muzzle of the rifle. A 7mm Mauser is about .285" while a 30'06 and 7,62 CETME are .308" in diameter. The difference should be apparent.

There is not as much difference between 7.62 NATO and .308 Winchester pressures as you seem to think.

Click to expand...

The difference between 7,62 CETME and .308Win is about 20K PSI. Enough to lose face, so to speak.
The difference between 7.62NATO and .308win is closer pressure-wise; but the important thing to remember is head space is different between those two... and when dealing with a 2-lug bolt on a rifle with a poor gas handling design, made in an era of less trustworthy metallurgy, you definitely want to be on the cautious side.

Thank you, Desidog.
I was deciding what to do with a Spanish 1916 Mauser with a very nice 7.62 CETME barrel. I think that it will be my test bed for cast and powder-coated 7.62x39 reloads... after I install a chamber adapter.

Click to expand...

You're welcome; but, i agree with Scooter22.... if you're reloading, i'd leave out the converter and just load .308 brass to lower pressure levels. I was doing this with gas checked cast bullets in my FR-7, back before i sold off my rifles that i deemed to be less safe. I had a fear of dropping a .308win in there and getting an unexpected rhinoplasty...

That gap between the handguard and the front of the rear sight means that it is a 1916 handguard, or someone lost the metal peice off the original handguard of a 1893.
But it could mean you have a 1916 in 7.62x51 Cetme conversion.
You cant tell by pictures of the furnature.
Furnature is often swapped around to complete a rifle for sale.
Have the Bore and chamber checked, and look for signs that it was a Factory conversion, Re- Bore job or a sleeved barrel.