Just how big is the .300 BLK?

If you want a true 30-30 comparison look into the new American 30 in final development by Black Hole Weaponry. It is a 6.8 necked up and pushes 2400+ with a 150gr bullet.

... and if you're looking for a short range defensive round a .300 BLK subsonic (preferably with a suppressor) is a winner; while using the same firearm to hit targets (bottles, cans and paper) with a supersonic round. One gun, one round, two loads.
Honestly I don't understand why the gun community is so slow to adopt something new. Instead many seem to spend all of their energy informing others why something made 50+ years ago is always better.
You want to know why the 1911 is so beloved? Because it's a 100 years old and the inventor is dead.
T
P.S. I take back the JMB reference. The guy (though still dead) was a genius.

HOOfan_1 said:

I consider the .300 Blackout more of a "why bother" hunting round, than the 6.8SPC.

The 62-64 grain .223 hunting ammo hits just as hard as the 110-125 grain .300 blackout hunting ammo. If you live in a state with caliber restrictions, it isn't as powerful as the 7.62x39 and the 6.8SPC really outshines it in power and range.

If you are looking at .308, .270 or .30-06, then you are not looking at AR-15s

If you are looking at AR-15s, what exactly does the .300 ACC Blackout do even as well as the 6.8SPC other than use standard .223 Magazines?

If you are looking to hunt with an AR-15, you don't need tons of magazines, so why not buy a specific 6.8SPC magazine?

If you are looking to plink at the range, why would you spend the money on 300 AAC ammo over .223 Ammo?

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Atom, you nailed it. To quote the famous expression, 'Great is the enemy of good'. The 300BLK doesn't do everything better, it is just an excellent set of compromises that have been calculated to trade off performance, low barrier of entry, availability and flexibility.
But there are loads of things the 300BLK doesn't do well. And it's not intended to replace or supersede anything else out there. But I have to admit that the AAC folks thought through a lot of tradeoffs, not the least of which was making it the equivalent of open source thus accelerating adoption. If the 300 Whisper patent owners had 'open sourced' their design, they'd be the winners and there would be no 300 BLK.
B

atomd said:

When I visited a Cabelas a few weeks ago they had 4 or 5 different brands on the shelf, maybe more. They had subsonics and supersonics.

I recently put together a .300 blackout. For me it's not about whether it's better or worse than a 7.62x39 or a 6.8SPC. None of that matters when you're not buying into it purely based on ballistics. Ballistics aren't everything....think about all the great rounds out there that you can't even buy commercial ammo for and that any components for it has to be custom built or ordered online with long wait times and at a high cost. You can't exactly walk into walmart and buy some 6XC ammo.

What really matters is that you can use all standard .556 AR parts (except for the barrel of course) that are available everywhere. You can now shoot a different round that does well out of a short barrel (unlike the .556), can shoot subsonics that are even commercially available (great if you have a suppressor). If you're a reloader it's fantastic because there's piles of .223 brass everywhere for cheap.....and you can walk into any store that sells reloading components and find at least a few different bullets that will work with it.

I'm sure a 110 grain Barnes TSX would get the job done on a lot of things. It's not some kind of knock your socks off amazing round of the century....but it has it's place. There's so many companies making ammo and barrels that it's not going anywhere for a long time.

Suppressors are becoming more and more popular and that will only make this round grow in popularity.

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Comparative ballistics between a 30-30 shooting a 150 gr HP against a 300 BLK shooting a 155 gr shows the BLK staying supersonic out to almost 700 yards with a terminal velocity of 1087 fps (MV of 1995 fps, BC .443). 30-30 goes subsonic around 400 yards with terminal velocity of 1178 fps (MV2390 fps, BC .218). 300BLK drop at 400 yards 48", 30-30 drop at 400 yards 64". Much of it is the type bullet used, most 30-30's are blunt nosed with relatively poor BC and bleed energy rapidly due to aerodynamic drag. 300 BLK typically uses high BC bullets and are able to maintain a higher percentage of downrange energy and velocity.

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This whole thread is a bit loopy, but this bit takes the cake. So let me make sure I've got this right, the 300 BLK is equivalent or even better than the 30-30 because a slick 155 gr shot out of a 300 BLK retains more velocity than a brick shaped 150 gr shot out of a 30-30 at 400 yds? Lets just ignore the fact that the 30-30 betters the 300 BLK by 300 fps to 500 fps in every bullet weight, both of these rounds are really stretching it for any serious use at 200 yds, much less 400 or 700. The comparison really becomes meaningless at ranges over about 200 yds, and the 30-30 is going put up much better numbers in the 0 - 150 yds that most eastern deer are shot at.

I'm not trying to pee in the 300 BLk cereal, but lets at least keep things in a semi-realistic context, if you launch the same 150gr out of a non-tubular magazine 30-30 at 2512 fps (best velocity load on Hodgdon's website) its going to have almost 600 fps on the best load for the same bullet in the 300 BLK (1932 fps).

Also, for the folks asking why people brought up hunting in this thread, the reason people always bring up hunting in these larger caliber AR-15 discussions, is that hunting is one of the few arena's where the 300/6.8/6.5 have anything of value over the 5.56. If you're just wanting a round to go out and blast at the range, or play carbine games, etc... you're really fooling yourself if you pick one of those other rounds over the 5.56. They don't do anything better than the 5.56 for shooting games, and cost a whole lot more. An argument could be made that the 300/6.5/6.8 would be better self defense cartridges than the 5.56, but on the flip side, do you really think that the 5.56 with good expanding bullets is a slouch at normal self defense distances? Nope. 5.56 with soft points at 20 - 30 feet is really a nasty round. So in what arena do 300/6.5/6.8 really add value to your gun cabinet? Hunting with an AR-15 is really the main/only answer to that question. Taking that thought to it's logical conclusion, if you're straying away from 5.56 for the purpose of building a better hunting AR-15, why settle on the 300 BLK when the 6.8 and 6.5 are superior hunting cartridges in pretty much every way that matters? Cost is one answer, but I really don't buy the "all you have to do is get a barrel" line maybe I'm weird, but when I want to shoot a certain caliber, I go ahead and buy a functional rifle in said caliber instead of buying parts which I can then use to laboriously convert my existing firearms back and forth.

I am thinking about building a 300 BLK sometime in the near future, but really only because I'd like to shoot subsonics through my suppressor... for most other uses there are better cartridge choices out there.

I think there is plenty of room in the AR world for variety, I think that the 300blk, 5.56, 6.5, 6.8 all have something to bring to the table, the closest overlap of those said calibers is the 6.5 and 6.8.

I for one see a huge advantage to the 300black suppressed if I were ever able to get close enough to a pack of wolves with a 8 tag limit, as I would stand a good chance at filling all 8 tags with one pack. That is something as an Idahoan I could get my head around.

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In texas its hogs. When there are 10 hogs at 50 yards. You are going to be able to get several with suppressed 300 blackout. Thats why I have it. Plus the SBR means that with the suppressor it is a manageable length and you dont give up any velocity.

I have multiple uppers in most of the "odd" AR calibers, just for fun and research. I read an article several months ago about the 300BO that made the most sense to me. The author called his 300BO a modern M1 carbine. That makes as much sense as anything else. It is almost as handy as a M!c with better ballistics and better scope mounting options.

As to the trajectory issue, it is not an issue. Just shoot your gun and learn the curve.

I would like to see Hornady come out with a superperformance load.

Cheers,

ts

I reload a few .30 caliber cartridges. I also reload for the 5.56. Therefore i have brass and projectiles on hand already. My cost of entry to the .300blk is $200 for a barrel.
To get into a 6.5 or 6.8 I need a $200 barrel, a $100 bcg, $250 in brass, and $200 in projectiles. I want a 250 yard max deer gun for a state that prohibits .22 caliber. Can one of the "6" fans tell me why the .300blk is a poor choice? It looks like the way to go for me.

"I'd say someone HAS designed a .30 cal AR round that at least matches 30-30 ballistics." -- bangswitch

You're going to be unpopular with the .300BLK haters...facts and common sense! That combo kills their buzz every single time.

... and if you're looking for a short range defensive round a .300 BLK subsonic (preferably with a suppressor) is a winner

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Just FYI for anyone considering this, most subsonic .300 makes a really poor choice for a defensive round - almost none of them expand at all at that velocity and most of them will zip through 18" of gel and keep on truckin'. With the exception of some of the Lehigh specialty loads or Fat McNasty's expanding stuff, most .300 subsonics are worse than pistol calibers.

If you are looking for a defensive round in .300, you are better off looking at the supersonic loads. Especially since even the supersonics are much milder in flash and blast than 5.56. My 9" .300 is easier to shoot unsuppressed than my 16" 5.56.

silicosys4 said:

I reload a few .30 caliber cartridges. I also reload for the 5.56. Therefore i have brass and projectiles on hand already. My cost of entry to the .300blk is $200 for a barrel.
To get into a 6.5 or 6.8 I need a $200 barrel, a $100 bcg, $250 in brass, and $200 in projectiles. I want a 250 yard max deer gun for a state that prohibits .22 caliber. Can one of the "6" fans tell me why the .300blk is a poor choice? It looks like the way to go for me.

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I held off for a year or two thinking the round wouldn't take off either ... I don't hunt but I like to shoot and work up loads plus I reload .308 & .223

The reason's I got into it was out of curiosity and for fun. I have a couple SBR'd AR lowers & suppressors so I got started with a 12" barrel for around $200 and a little powder. Which is a lot less money than 6.5 & 6.8 ... but then I saw a 16" KAC upper for $1K to put on my SR-15 so the money argument goes out the window for me.



Now, all that said ... I also have uppers in 7.62x38, 5.7 and 9mm

So I guess the simple answer is that I just like to tinker.

This thread gave me a headache. Probably four posts pertaining to OP's question, the rest just degrading into the same old arguments.
I get that some may not see the need for a certain round, that's great. Don't buy it. More availability of your round for you, and more of mine for me. It may be convenient for your argument to make fun of that with which you don't agree, but it just seems childish to blame someone's weapon choice on "because it's the cool thing"

I built my 300blk for a few reasons.
1. Fresh out of the Marines, AR pattern feels like an extension of my body. I wanted a 7.62 sub300yd AR platform rifle I could use on CenTex deer and hog. I've never taken a deer or hog at a distance further than 175yds where I hunt.
2. I already had a ton of extra 5.56 components including brass, bolts, charging handles, mags, and stocks from a previous build.
3. I've always wanted to suppress and SBR a weapon. (Still wanting...sigh)
4. I had just started reloading.

When I weighed all of these together, along with my research on the subject, as well as extensive use of THR (thanks!) I was left with my decision of the 300blk and I haven't looked back since. It's done everything I've asked of it and I'm very happy with, and proud of my build. For me, OP, the 300blk will remain big, and I recommend it to anyone I talk to looking to fill a similar role.

I wish everyone the best of luck with their choices and happy hunting. Oh and happy birthday tomorrow to all of my Corps brothers! Semper!

It may be convenient for your argument to make fun of that with which you don't agree, but it just seems childish to blame someone's weapon choice on "because it's the cool thing"

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Well said!

... and if you're looking for a short range defensive round a .300 BLK subsonic (preferably with a suppressor) is a winner

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So is a 45 acp and there are lots of bullets for it designed for subsonic performance.

Bartholomew Roberts said:

Just FYI for anyone considering this, most subsonic .300 makes a really poor choice for a defensive round - almost none of them expand at all at that velocity and most of them will zip through 18" of gel and keep on truckin'. With the exception of some of the Lehigh specialty loads or Fat McNasty's expanding stuff, most .300 subsonics are worse than pistol calibers.

If you are looking for a defensive round in .300, you are better off looking at the supersonic loads. Especially since even the supersonics are much milder in flash and blast than 5.56. My 9" .300 is easier to shoot unsuppressed than my 16" 5.56.

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would that be the case with "low-recoil" or "lite" .308 ?

"The civilian market for silencers soared 37% in 2013, when the total number shot up to nearly a half a million, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives registry. That's compared to 360,000 in 2012 and 285,000 in 2011."

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Yes, over the last several years demand for suppressors for .22- & .30-cal rifles has exploded for 2 reasons: first, most everyone can afford the extra $200 for the tax stamp if they can afford the can and the rifle to put it on, and prices on cans have dropped as more suppressor-manufacturers have entered the market; second, more and more of the states in which cans are legal to own have also legalized them for hunting. Ohio and, I believe, N.Carolina just did. Not sure on Michigan. Bills to do the same in other states are pending.

Congress should just authorize BATFE to de-list suppressors from classification as an "NFA firearm."

In some European countries, where it's tougher than heck to even get a firearm, if you have a rifle you can go into a sporting goods store and buy a can for it off the shelf without restrictions, paperwork or registration. It the rifle that's registered. Over there, there they view the blast and concussive noise of gunfire as an auditory health issue as well as one of disturbing the peace.

I think it made it big !!!!
Ammo is available at my local walmart.

If you want it for subsonic get it otherwise there are better choices.

I reload and try not to buy a lot of ammo so I chose the 7.62 x 40 WT, the blackout is a 7.62 x 35 both based on the 223 case.
More powder more speed.
I am limited to bullets betweem 110 and 135 grains but have better performance that the russian 39 and slightly under the 30-30 in a lightweight AR.

would that be the case with "low-recoil" or "lite" .308 ?

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Don't know. You need the bullet to match the velocity envelope the round was designed for though. Most .308 bullets are designed to expand at supersonic speeds. If you use them at subsonic speeds, no expansion.

I have nothing against many of the larger calibers for AR-15 platform, believe me I would take and use any that were given to me. But I have a hard time getting excited about a round shooting 110-130 gr. bullets at 2600 fps. That's your muzzle velocity and my 270 WSM is doing that at 500 yds (or thereabouts look it up and correct me.) (Yawn.) Not that they don't have their place. I think for short range deer and hogs with the 120 gr. GO FOR IT. Have fun with that slick little rifle! Like I said I will probly build another myself and investigate furghter. Stretch it out to 200 or 300 if you have to. I think the better bullets are 120 gr and up as fast as you can get those short little cases to push em.

I personally own 3. A 16.5" rem. 700 AAC-SD, a 8.5" AR SBR, and a 10.5" AR SBR. IMHO, great guns for what they are.

I see the sudden popularity of the 300 Blackout as a conflagration of several different variables all coming together at an opportune time. Interestingly enough, 300 Blackout has a lot of appeal for people who are both gun newbies and long-time shooters.

In no particular order:

• The cartridge has in-built appeal for people heavily invested in ARs already because it uses the same magazines as their .223 rifles. Magazine compatibility is a big plus, especially for those people living in states with magazine bans.

• The cartridge has an in-built appeal for the crowd that denigrates the .223/AR combination as a "poodle shooter" or "glorified .22" or whatever because it shoots a big, manly .30 caliber bullet.

• The cartridge has an in-built appeal for the AK fan who's eye has wandered to the AR platform. It offers the same ballistics, but in a rifle that, by any objective measure, is superior to the AK in every meaningful way.

• Due to the political climate, a lot of people have been getting into guns for the first time. Most of these people will likely never learn to shoot a rifle at distances beyond about 200 yards. The new/casual gun owner isn't likely to have access to a range longer than 200-300 yards, nor are they likely to put in the time/effort/expense of learning to shoot a rifle out to 500 yards, so the advantages offered by .223/6.5/6.8 are completely lost on them.

• It works well with unmagnified red dot and holographic sights.

• The cartridge is legal to use for hunting in places that do not allow .223.

• There is a current explosion going on in the world of NFA-regulated guns and devices. Suppressors are more popular now than at any time in the past, and having an SBR is both a lot of fun and very cool. 300 Blackout suppresses well, and has decent performance out of short-barreled guns, making it a good choice for a 2-stamp black rifle.

• It's perceived as a good round for home defense.

• The SIG Arm Brace has created an entire sub-culture of people who are building the firearms equivalent of René Magritte's painting "The Treachery of Images." Call it a pistol, faux-SBR, notarifle, or whatever, but a huge number of people are building AR pistols because it's a way for them to walk right up to the legal line and thumb their nose at The Man. It just so happens that 300 Blackout works just as well in an AR "pistol" as it does in an honest-to-Buddha short-barreled rifle.

• There are about a half-dozen companies selling 300 Blackout uppers for about $300.

• Travis Haley likes it.

• There's a pretty solid marketing campaign behind it.

• It's probably in the new Call of Duty game.

The #1 reason for the popularity of the .300 Blackout is that it's primarily a caliber for the AR-15, and for whatever reason(s), the AR-15 is insanely popular at the moment.

As to why a person would choose the .300 over other calibers that are available for the AR, I'd imagine that there are about as many reasons as there are people that have chosen it.

I don't have a .300 Blackout, or even an AR at the moment, but I'm seriously considering building an AR in that caliber.

I purchased my first AR-15 when I was 17, kept it for 3 or 4 years, then traded it in as partial payment on an M1a and never looked back.

The Blackout has me considering the AR again after more than 30 years, primarily because of its suitability for use through a suppressor, but also because of how cheap and easy it would be to reload for.

I currently reload and shoot a lot of suppressed 7.62x39 through both SKS's and VZ58's (I never had much luck getting reliable functioning in my AK's). Since like gidaeon I cast and powder coat my own bullets, its very cheap. Also in the interest of cheapness, I use Berdan cases, but depriming them after each firing takes "easy" right out of the equation.

Boxer primed 7.62x39 cases are anything but cheap and I seldom find any laying on the ground at ranges that I frequent.

That's not true with .223/5.56 brass, I can easily pick up far more than I could ever hope to load. By simply cutting those cases off at the shoulder and running them through a .300 Blackout die, I'll have a pretty much unlimited supply of essentially free, easily reloaded cases.

Originally posted by: Tirod
"Let's not forget AAC had nothing to do with it, they lifted it from JD Jones and the .300Whisper"

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That's not true, while I'll admit that the cases are very similar, the parent case for the .300 Whisper was the .221 Fireball. If you use .223 cases to form Whisper brass you'll have to ream or neck turn all your cases. The .300 Blackout was designed with the .223/5.56 as its parent case. AAC gave it a thicker neck from the beginning so that Blackout cases can be easily formed from .223/5.56 brass without using complicated and time consuming benchrest style reloading techniques. It also makes for a stronger case neck that's less likely to get deformed while being slammed around in a semi or full auto weapon.

That small change, along with being an open source SAAMI chambering with multiple suppliers of parts and ammunition (think competition and lower prices), is what gives the .300 Blackout a lot of its mass appeal.

Originally Posted by: Justin
The cartridge has an in-built appeal for the AK fan who's eye has wandered to the AR platform. It offers the same ballistics, but in a rifle that, by any objective measure, is superior to the AK in every meaningful way.

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It isn't often that you see a MOD try to derail a thread, but I'll bite.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionar

RELIABILITY

: The quality or state of being reliable

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FYI: The Russian dictionary just says "AK-47".

The SIG Arm Brace * * * Call it a pistol, faux-SBR, notarifle, or whatever, but a huge number of people are building AR pistols because it's a way for them to walk right up to the legal line and thumb their nose at The Man. It just so happens that 300 Blackout works just as well in an AR "pistol" * * *

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Not to mention, the SIG AB allows them to get into the fun of a 5.56mm or 300BLK faux-SBR without going thru the paperwork, sign-offs, $200 tax stamp, and wait-time involved in getting the real deal.

Swampman said:

That's not true, while I'll admit that the cases are very similar, the parent case for the .300 Whisper was the .221 Fireball.

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And the parent case for both the .221 Fireball and .223/5.56 Remington is the .222 Remington. 300BLK and 300 Whisper cases have the same dimensions, reloading dies are the same for both.

I very much agree that the .223 case is a better choice to mod into a 300BLK case; more available, cheaper, and necking down gives a stronger case neck than necking up.

It isn't often that you see a MOD try to derail a thread, but I'll bite.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionar

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Not trying to derail the thread, just stating solid fact.