30 Carbine versus 300 Blackout.

dubbleA said:

Factory ammo.....115 FMJ, maybe a soft point factory load out there somewhere?

You are limited to light weight bullets due to the magazine OAL and twist of the barrel.

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It was designed around 110 gr FMJ. With care, lighter bullets are good too.

As for factory .30 carbine, there is more out there than you seem to think.

There are, currently, factory FMJ loads from Aguilla, Armscor, Hornady, IWI, Prvi Partizan, Sellier & Bellot & TulAmmo. JSP/JHP loads are available from Federal, Herters (rebadged TulAmmo, I believe), Hornady (FTX), Prvi Partizan, & Speer (Gold Dot).

These are what are currently available on Gunbot.

Remington & Winchester have loaded both FMJ & JSP in the past.

I buy PPU for the JSP & Armscor for plinking and reloading brass.

I'd far rather my carbine than yet another AR variant. YMWV.

These discussions usually degenerate into a soliloquy on "why my chosen round is better than the other round" knowing that people will take the bait that own the other round. That is why I posted what I did. The M1 Carbine was designed to be used instead of the .45 caliber sidearm by rear echelon personnel. It had a larger magazine capacity, would reach out further, and was easy to operate and maintain so it had attributes that the 45 auto didn't possess. The 300 Blackout was designed as a round that could be loaded up or down and be used with the AR platform. I own several M-1 Carbines and they are fun to shoot. I own a couple of AR's but none in the 300 blackout and I am not likely to ever buy one because I have no interest in the round.

My intent is to hold the moderators of this site to its stated purpose and juvenile arguments over what round is better, what rifle is better, and the like are not High Road at all but instead are not worthy of serious discussion due to the actual fact that different calibers, weapons, and tactics are all useful for their intended purposes. Things being used outside of those purposes only illustrates the users ignorance (meaning lack of knowledge) or lack of maturity. (My Dad can beat up your Dad)

So, which road are we on, the high or low???

So we're not supposed to discuss the differences between calibers, platforms and tactics? Sounds more like 'No Road' than the 'High Road.'


Larry

No, I am saying that you should do your own primary research. Loading, ballistic, and other data on both rounds is available on the internet. The 30 Carbine is limited to either M1 Carbines or Ruger Blackhawks as far as I am aware while the 300 Blackout is only available in an AR platform. If you like the AR, by all means go with the Blackout, if you want a WWII vintage firearm or a pistol with very good performance go with the 30 carbine but in my opinion the comparison is useless without knowing the intended purpose of obtaining either round or weapon. There is a member who uses the signature line "Oh, I understand, your weapon is worth a fortune but mine is a piece of crap." I think that covers a lot of the discussions I have read here. You are free to form your own opinion though, and to endlessly argue the merits using only opinion with little supporting factual data. My advice to all who come seeking wisdom is to find it on your own, don't take another's opinion for your own because it is comfortable.

If a thread devolves into a pissing contest about various calibers or platforms, then I would agree that its usefulness is nullified, but this thread was full of positive, civil discussion. Right up until you took a dump in it.
As I'm interested in both the .30 carbine and .300 blackout cartridges, I'd love to continue reading the thoughts presented here, for what it's worth.

.32-20 was popular as a rifle round for years so there is a niche for light .30 rilfes.

I bought a M1 .30 carbine for the history, and for the fact it was a 1943 IBM: I was spending 10% of my profit from a computer programming project on myself, 90% on the family. I shoot it in the local vintage military matches and take it with me on trips to the mountain (over the years I have encountered medium size predators and a rabid animal).

If I were buying a rifle starting from scratch, an AR in .300 Blackout would be more practical and versatile. But since I already have the M1, and it meets my wants for now, I'll stick to .30 carbine.

I'd love to continue reading the thoughts presented here, for what it's worth.

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Well I hate typing but here goes, the 30 Carbine is kinda a one trick pony sure there are a few other options but the M1 Carbine is by far the most prevelant and not that that's a bad thing it's one trick is a damn good one, it's an increadable easy gun to shoot especially for smaller statured folks, it has enough power to dispatch up to and including deer at resonable range and makes a pretty good defensive weapon.
The 300 Blackout is really a modern fully developed cartridge that builds on the original intent and usage of the 30 Carbine. It really does everything a bit better than the 30 carbine a little more power, better range all while allowing for a very compact and easy to shoot platform.
From a reloader standpoint the carbine is easy enough but there's only so much you can do with it, the Blackout is a blast to reload and opens up the ability to shoot just about any .308 diameter bullet.

Add the fact that there is a near limitless supply of 5.56 brass to build Blackout rounds with, as opposed to 30 carbine. Precious little noncorrosive carbine ammo exists outside of commercial (read: expensive) production.

The Blackout favors the reloader for sure. It also is available in a wider variety of guns and is a great platform for silencer use. The 30 carbine only has two platforms I'm aware of: the original carbine and a few Ruger single action revolvers.

The 30 carbine can be had in single shot pistols and rifles, TC

The 30 carbine can be had in revolvers, Ruger and Taurus. The Ruger has been in production since the early 70's.

The 30 carbine can be had in semi auto pistols, AMT and the Enforcer.

The 30 carbine can be had in semi/full auto rifles, M1/M2/M3 military style.

I have seen one bolt action 30 carbine that was a custom build.

The 300aac can be had in AR style pistols and rifles,

The 300aac is being built in bolt actions by numerous companies and more

Elkins45 said:

Precious little noncorrosive carbine ammo exists outside of commercial (read: expensive) production.

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All 30 Carbine ammo is non-corrosive. It was the first US cartridge specified to use non-corrosive primers due to the short stroke gas piston.

I find no real problem reloading it either with either cast LRN or Hornady XTP.

"...the 300 Blackout is only available in an AR platform." - SHR

Your research is incomplete or faulty. There are offerings in bolt- and break-action rifles, some of which are factory-threaded 5/8"x24 for accessories including suppressors.

This is the high road and the moderators work very hard to keep it that way. We should all be thankful that such an incredible resource exists.

kanook,

You forgot the obscure Marlin Levermatic rifle. Although I do not think anything came of it Olympic Arms once made a few .30 Carbine ARs and I handled one but never got a chance to shoot it. Before anyone asks it used an adaptor block in the magwell like some 9x19 ARs to hold 15 round Carbine mags. Their target market was the Israeli police forces then using worn out M-1 Carbines.

Just remembered back around the early '80s Albert's ShutzenPlinker 150 grain swaged lead rifle bullets (looked like a semi wad cutter) had loads listed to function an M-1 carbine also I believe in the 900fps or so range. Every now and then I ask on THR if anyone is familure with Albert's Bullets and what happened to them and if anyone makes similar bullets to day.

I don't think I am engaging in "My dog's bigger than your dog" arguments, but just adding to knowledge of some about the .30 carbine.

If anyone is interested in that sort of argument let me just say "Mary Ann......Genie" and leave it at that.

-kBob

All 30 Carbine ammo is non-corrosive.

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Allow me to correct that for you, "All USGI and commercial 30 Carbine ammo is non-corrosive". French and the Chinese forgery of LC .30 Carbine ammo is corrosive.

Don

yep. that very cheap French 7.5 Carbine I shot in the late 1960s turned the inside of my Winchester M-1 Carbine red over night and scared the begeebers out of me. The ammo was hard to resist though as it was a lot cheaper than GI at the time and a WHOLE BUNCH cheaper than commercial. My parents tossed out the empty boxes I saved when they moved while I was over seas. I bought the stuff at our grocery store where it was available for asking from under the check out counter. I bought CIL .22LR there because I thought the red and yellow trays in the box were cool as all get out......this was long before CCI and Federal used plastic slip boxes. I used one of the boxes in High School JROTC on the rifle team as an ammo block. Sorry rambling.

-kBob

"Why is the number of guns the round is chambered for important?" - Balrog

Because it is an indicator that the round will be a commercial success, just as multiple ammo mfrs. loading the round is an indicator.

"Most people are going to only own 1 chambered in either caliber."

You're welcome to your opinion but that hasn't been my experience.

"How many 300 Blackouts and 30 carbines do you own??? "

My personal collection as an anecdotal example is no more important than your speculation. Specifically, however, I've owned many M1 carbines, a Ruger Blackhawk and a couple of rather wretched AMTs. The Blackhawk was the loudest, most unpleasant fire-breathing revolver I've ever owned...and I've owned more than a few.

As to AR platforms, check my signature.

Balrog said:

Why is the number of guns the round is chambered for important?
Most people are going to only own 1 chambered in either caliber.

For 300 Blackout, AR's are most common gun.
For 30 Carbine, its the M-1 Carbine.

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Because people with different wants/needs have a better chance of having them filled when different guns are available. The 300 was initially created as an AR alternative round, but I just recently bought an H&R Handi-rifle in 300. It has a threaded muzzle so I can mount a silencer and it is a fun little platform for hunting suppressed. I can shoot in my backyard and not bother the neighbors. I can't wait until the Ruger American is available because I'm pretty sure I will end up with one of those as well. I don't think there's a 30 carbine platform and ammo combination readily available that offers this versatility.

30 carbine doesn't seem to have the versatility that blackout does, in spite of the fact that it has been chambered in more different platforms than I initially remembered. My impression is that people buy an AR or an M1 carbine because they like the GUN, but people pick the blackout over the 30 carbine because they want the performance advantage and cheap brass.

Hypothetical choice: I know that if someone put two M1 carbines in front of me and one was somehow magically chambered for 300 blackout I would choose it. I wouldn't choose an AR chambered in 30 carbine if somebody made one.

If the 30 carbine round didn't already exist I'm not sure anybody would see the need to invent it. I do think the gun might have been invented because it is a sweet little platform. So in this case the chicken caused the egg...the round was invented because they needed something for this very handy little gun to shoot. I wish I hadn't traded my IBM carbine because it was a fun little gun and a great piece of history. But I miss the gun, not the round.

Actually if Ruger would make a Mini14 in .300BO you could have an almost carbine in the cartridge. Guess it would take a new barrel and adjusting the amount of gas available to function the gun.

I have yet to get a chance at my friends .300 but I must be sure to take a M-1 Carbine when I do just to remember this thread.

-kBob

wlewisiii said:

It was designed around 110 gr FMJ. With care, lighter bullets are good too.

As for factory .30 carbine, there is more out there than you seem to think.

There are, currently, factory FMJ loads from Aguilla, Armscor, Hornady, IWI, Prvi Partizan, Sellier & Bellot & TulAmmo. JSP/JHP loads are available from Federal, Herters (rebadged TulAmmo, I believe), Hornady (FTX), Prvi Partizan, & Speer (Gold Dot).

These are what are currently available on Gunbot.

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My point was that 30 cabine factory ammo is limited. If you want something other than a 110gr fmj or a soft/hollow point you're going to have a hard time finding it if at all.

Balrog said:

Why do people take this type of discussion so personally?

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Because it's the internet?

dubbleA said:

My point was that 30 cabine factory ammo is limited. If you want something other than a 110gr fmj or a soft/hollow point you're going to have a hard time finding it if at all.

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I own an Arisaka Type 99. There is 1 (ONE) factory load that I am aware of. That is "limited" ammo.

My M1 Carbine? I have an abundance of joy when it comes to factory ammo.

No, there isn't a lot of bullet variety. But between the 110 FMJ, JSP, LRN & 85 gr JHP that I have access to I'm really not sure there is anything I really think is missing.

My Remington 700 realy likes 150 gr. Core-Lokt MUCH more than anything else.

If I owned a Garand, I'd need a JSP/JHP that mimics M-2 Ball or I'll mangle the op-rod. OR I have to modify the rifle (yes, a simple and easy to reverse mod, but the statement remains true.)

I really don't see the practical difference between the ammo selection for these three rifles.