reliability of safeties in the woods

i've never found it to be a problem. i'll periodically check to be sure it's still engaged, but have never had a situation where it became disengaged on it's own, even when working through thick brush.

While I'm basically distrustful of safeties, I've never had a problem.

If you keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, you should be good. That said, muzzle control is an absolute.

I've always felt very strange with the muzzle that close to my head. Add in it being behind me out of sight so I don't know where it is pointing and I just wont do it with a round in the chamber.

Now if the barrel is long enough to extend above my head I think I'd be ok with it.

I'm in the camp that "normally" loads a round in the chamber and moves the safety to the safe position. It is not that I completely trust the safety, I still am very diligent about muzzle control, but it is one more layer of protection in case something goes wrong.

There are times when the chamber should be unloaded. If you are in a situation where there is increased possibility of a fall because of rough terrain, negotiating fences, or climbing into a tree stand, the chamber should be empty until it is safe to reload. You couldn't get off a shot at these times anyway.

There are those who don't load the chamber until they see game. This seems more common in some of the western states. I suppose the argument could be made that the terrain it steep and rough enough all of the time to justify an empty chamber all of the time in many of these places.

I would not carry one slung that way. but in my hands at the ready, yes.

Why does the rifle need to be loaded if it's slung behind your back???

That right there is the big question.

You can load it on the way to your shoulder after you get it unslung.

I often carry muzzle down on my left shoulder, as the rifle can be rotated into a sling shooting stance in one motion.

It also allows the left arm & elbow to shield the trigger guard.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HIa9UoulrFk

rc

Everyone I know, keeps either a:

1) right hand's palm over the bolt and trigger guard, or,

2) the right thumb on the safety, and right palm covering (cupping) the trigger guard as they go through thick brush.

Why? Well, it's what we were taught in Hunter Safety. Oh, by the way, when we cross a fence, we unload the rifle, leave the bolt/action locked open, set the rifle on the far side of the fence, secured with the muzzle in a safe direction, then cross the fence. After we cross the fence, we collect the firearm, reload and go hunting.

I am not trying to be rude, but for your safety sake, I am compelled to ask, how you completed a Hunter Safety course? If you have not, please do so. Your question is a basic safety matter. I want to see you here, around THR for a lot more years.

Sincerely, and respectfully,

Geno

For me, it depends on the situation. The chamber is usually loaded. Sometimes the rifle is slung muzzle up, sometimes muzzle down, sometimes I just carry it without using the sling

I was rabbit hunting with my younger cousin when I was in high school. He had his dad's Model 12 Winchester over his shoulder pointed just past my head when it went off. Just missed my head. I grabbed the gun and proceeded to cuss him out until I figured out the safety was still on. Safety's can fail! Keep your finger off the trigger and always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and you can't go wrong.

reliability of safeties in the woods

the best safety is between your ears. keep your finger off the trigger
keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction at all times and yes check
your safety but its mechanical can fail

While I agree you should never trust a safety, and always treat the gun as if it were loaded (even when you think it isn't) and it has no safety, I am a great fan of the Winchester 3-position safety:

1. It locks the striker (the part that makes the gun go bang) not the trigger. Parts can fail in trigger systems.

2. It locks the bolt DOWN when fully engaged -- there is nothing more frustrating than having a 7X7 elk in the crosshairs and hearing a "click" when you squeeze the trigger, because you slightly lifted the bolt handle crossing that deadfall.

3. In the mid position, the striker is still locked, so you can open the bolt to eject the round in the chamber. You can also load with the safety in the mid position -- you never go "hot" until ready to shoot.

Me i carry loaded but on half cock (lever) never had a problem. Then i also keep a very close eye on the muzzle. Bolt is loaded if the safety locks the bolt, that one i have found off before though. The half cock had never failed. But i had a guy i was hunting with (loaded and on safe 30-06) with very poor muzzle control, his response? Don't worry its on safe. I won't get into the wood's with him again, i split up later that trip and hard a shout about 10mins later, went back down the trail and guess what? Same guy had slipped at some point, and gotten mud in the barrel, and how does he clear it? Why firing it into a tree.

Like i said, I may give you a chance, but not a second one.

jmr40 said:

I'm in the camp that "normally" loads a round in the chamber and moves the safety to the safe position. It is not that I completely trust the safety, I still am very diligent about muzzle control, but it is one more layer of protection in case something goes wrong.

There are times when the chamber should be unloaded. If you are in a situation where there is increased possibility of a fall because of rough terrain, negotiating fences, or climbing into a tree stand, the chamber should be empty until it is safe to reload. You couldn't get off a shot at these times anyway.

There are those who don't load the chamber until they see game. This seems more common in some of the western states. I suppose the argument could be made that the terrain it steep and rough enough all of the time to justify an empty chamber all of the time in many of these places.

Click to expand...

I agree with this and do the same thing, other than the last paragraph.

RC nailed it, if I'm actively hunting, round in the pipe, safety on. Anything else, chamber empty, safety on. Just walking around with a loaded rifle for no concrete reason, is IMHO, unsafe.

tactikel said:

RC nailed it, if I'm actively hunting, round in the pipe, safety on. Anything else, chamber empty, safety on. Just walking around with a loaded rifle for no concrete reason, is IMHO, unsafe.

Click to expand...

Seconded!

I can't see the logic in having one up the spout when the rifle is slung over the shoulder. If there's a chance that the hunter might need to use the rifle, then it should be ready in the hands.

During the last 5 years, I've had 3 occasions where bullets have passed by within a couple of metres. All because a hunter did something stupid. Even sharp guys are capable of making mistakes and or having unexpected trips/falls. Hunting is exciting enough without increasing the risk for no benefit

Whether I'm in the woods actively hunting or in the woods just carrying my long gun for any other general reason...seems to me that an unloaded firearm isn't doing me a bit of good when I need it. If I'm carrying a long gun in the woods, I'm carrying it for a reason.

Yeah, yeah...if I'm just carrying it to the backwoods target range for some target shooting, it MAY be unloaded to and from.

Otherwise the gun is loaded and the safety is on. And the four rules are always in effect. (A safety does not mitigate these rules.)


As for "Just walking around with a loaded rifle for no concrete reason, is IMHO, unsafe", to quote 1911Tuner on the matter: "Is gun. Gun not safe."

Do you want to get shot in the face or chest or anybody part for that matter in the woods? The best safety any firearm has is your brain!

Lets address some things left unsaid.

You're hunting? Why is the rifle slung on your shoulder as if on parade? I've jumped more deer going into my stand or blind than I care to count over 40 years. I no longer stroll to that location unless it's pitch black in the morning, I still hunt to it, three careful steps and wait at least 30 seconds slowly scanning.

You have to see a deer to shoot it, and a flagging whitetail is usually a fail in tactics.

As for Hunter Safety saying cup your hand around the trigger, not with the AR15. And with 22 years training USAR it's drilled in to keep it at a low port. I can shield the trigger with the extended finger while keeping my thumb on the safety.

When moving across terrain with another hunting buddy I let them go ahead 35-50 yards, which reduces the muzzling that absolutely will happen in the field. Again - 22 years in small units in the field, you must learn and accept that your fellow soldiers will not ND the weapon. You are as culpable as they.

Hunter safety is important, if you are with others in the field, tho, it's no different than shotgunners working pheasant, etc. You must maintain separation, have good muzzle discipline, and keep the chit chat to a minimum. They may carry at a high port because of their game, and they tend to work in a chevron to keep the muzzling to a minimum.

They don't use slings on shotguns, do they? There is a reason for that. The Army taught me in the Infantry School to remove it going into the field. It's not that much an asset getting tangled in underbrush when trying to quietly move closer to game. It makes carrying the weapon too easy when you should have been paying attention to your surroundings. In combat that can be lethal, deer hunting it can mean the difference between a good shot or watching an opportunity lost. Slings became popular when Great White Hunters had gun bearers loaded down with drillings, stalking the elusive rare ungulate across the Serengeti.

The military uses them for parades. In the field - not so much.

Lastly, just how twitchy is your trigger? Using a two pound target trigger in the field isn't recommended, and world wide most combat field triggers have a minimum six pound pull. There Is A Reason For That - stumbling across tangled vegetation, uneven footing, fatigued, and sudden surprises means that you need a trigger you know is controlled.

There is NO loss of effective accuracy with a 6 pound trigger, what is really happening is oneupmanship - installing a race gun trigger on an off road gun. I don't often see open stack injection on a swamp buggy, a two pound target trigger that might increase accuracy .25 MOA on a good day isn't going to make or break a hunting trip when you are shooting at an 18" square center of mass moving target at 50 - 125 yards. It's just the wrong part for the wrong gun.

Get the working weight of a proper field trigger back up where it belongs, to prevent ND's in rough terrain, and we wouldn't have to worry so much about a functional safety keeping it from suddenly Going Off! like it had a mind of it's own.

I carry chambered,, safety on, barrel wherever everyone else isn't....including the dogs. Generally barrel down in front left.

For hunting, and carry with a sling in general, I prefer a different technique.

Before I start, let me say that I am right handed.

I have always found that for hunting, carrying the rifle slung over my right shoulder was cumbersome: The rifle muzzle tends to snag on brush, it is close to my head, and it is awkward to bring the rifle to my shoulder. BTW, I have heard this method called the "American style carry." I will use it, however, if I have to have both hands free while climbing a ladder ;with an unloaded (no round in chamber) gun (up to, say, a shooting blind, or, in my earlier days, to the top of a windmill).

For carrying a gun with a loaded chamber, I prefer to carry it slung muzzle down over my left shoulder with my left hand on the forestock. This is sometimes called an "African style carry." That way, I have control of the muzzle at all times, and the muzzle is always pointed towards the ground. Since the sling attachment is close to the butt, there is not much there for the mesquite brush to grab (and the stock is protected from scratching). Your hand is well away from the trigger. AND, best of all, with a good sling of the right length, you can bring it to your shoulder in one smooth movement in a fraction of the time that you can unsling a rifle from your right shoulder and bring it to bear. All you really need to do is bend your left arm at the elbow and grab the grip with your right hand and continue into shooting position.

If you have never tried doing it this way, you should try it a few times just to see how it feels.