When Does a .380 Beat a 9mm? Good article

Nothing new or particularly enlightening in that article. Reality is, most folks who shift down to a .380 pair it with a micro 10 oz gun that's equally hard to accurately shoot multiple rounds.

Everything in that article has been discussed here ad nauseam.

Discussed but not understood as we *constantly* see folks saying "Well, great, but I can get a 9mm in a pistol the same size so why would anyone buy a .380?" :banghead:

Bigger is better...more power = more "knock down" power. So, all things being equal, and they never are, .380 has no reason to exist. Except there is no such thing as knock down power in a handgun and penetration and placement (placement being easier and more accurate/constistent under pressure with less recoil!) are what make for successful SD with a handgun.

Yet we see the same denigration of .380 and the same statements over and over that "you won't notice the recoil and I can get a 9mm in the same size pistol so .380 is irrelevant" discussion until it gets silly.

It's not that simple as this article points out very well and I thank the OP for the link!

VooDoo

Obvious answer, if having a small .380 means you'll actually be carrying it then it beats any 9mm you left behind.

It seems to be saying that the .380 is easier to control, and thus more shots get on target, than the 9mm.

It’s amusing that the author completely overlooked the greater truth; that a full sized gun is easier to control than either one. The paradigm seems to be, concealed = undetectable. Even in states where concealed is a requirement of carry, concealed still means ‘hidden’ or ‘obscured’. Concealed does not mean imperceptible.

Carrying a tiny gun for the purpose of concealment (as opposed to a weight-on-belt issue) is unnecessary. If one were to examine their reasons for carrying a pocket gun, and disregard their preconceived notions and conventional wisdom, they’d realize a mid-sized or even full sized gun is every bit as concealed as their pocket gun. That realization makes the entire article moot.

I think those dismissing this as been said before need to find a thread about the Glock 42 and reread that. You get two big arguments against the Glock 42. It should have been a 9mm and if its a .380 it should be the same size as a LCP. What this article articulates so well is what I've been saying for months. Its a very shootable .380.

Somebody round up the dead horses. I'll get a bat.

When does a .380 beat a 9mm? When you have a .380 but not a 9mm. That's when.

Personally, I think it's a silly question. We could ask the same question for virtually any other combination of rounds and the answers may vary slightly, but in the end this is what it boils down to.

When does a 9mm beat a .475 Wildey Magnum?

When does a .22 LR beat a .38?

Good article. Makes me not so dismissive of the .380 as perhaps I once was. Anyone have a link to Ellifritz’s studies?

In addition to the effect of recoil on accurate follow-up shot placement is the very real effect of muzzle blast. The .380 operates at about 15kpsi while the 9mm at 32kpsi. That is a significant increase in noise especially indoors or from inside a car. Those of you who have shot at an indoor range can easily tell the difference between a .38SPL and a .357 with hearing protection on. The 9mm is almost as annoying as a .357

Author fails (I think... I didn't bother to read the whole thing closely) to point out the very real fact that blow-back operated pistols generally have sharper-feeling recoil than locked-breech pistols. I'd much rather shoot a SIG P938 than a Walther PPK with full-powered ammo, for example, though the PPK weighs half a pound more.

I carry a mouse gun. There. I said it.

I have an arsenal of mid and full size pistols and revolvers in .38, .357, 9mm, .40, and .45 as well as two drawers full of leather, kydex, pancake, IWB, OWB, and shoulder holsters.

I wear them and shoot them often...but I just can't do it every day. My work DOES require that my firearm is 100% invisible. I work with the public, and while I observe my right to keep and bare arms, I respect theirs to not be comfortable coming into a store with an obviously armed proprietor. I'm in business to make money, not try to educate the public on firearms.

I move a lot at work. I bend, I sit, I carry, I lift. Basically, a gun has to fit in my back pocket(s). This time of year I wear a sweat shirt or an untucked flannel. I'll strap a snub nose Ruger on my hip. I'll always pick a .357 snubbie over pocket pistol if given the choice. However, the pocket gun ALWAYS comes with me.

Most other times, I have to pocket carry only. This means an LCP or M&P Bodyguard (sometimes both) are what I carry on my person. I keep a full size in my office drawer. Day to day, 13-14 rounds of .380 carried on my person either via a gun and a reload or two firearms is adequate protection.

Now, I try not to be stupid. I had to run some material out to my other office yesterday. It's in a rougher part of town. I carried my M&P Bodyguard in my pocket like I always do...and had a 92fs in a shoulder holster. I know that we never know exactly when trouble is going to strike, but it is much more probable on that side of town.

I shoot a .380 pocket pistol well. I practice often. I ALWAYS have it on me. Even a single stack 9mm would get carried as much (by ME) as my little Mice.

I will say that I wish they would quite marketing these to inexperienced shooters or selling them to women who throw them in their purse and forget about them. They are snappy and take a lot of work to gain serious proficiency.

Hold your horse!! It's not quite dead!

Shot placement is EVERYTHING so a lower recoil .380 will have a better shot placement than the high recoil 9mm in a mouse gun




OK.. Now it's dead. You may proceed with the beating

tuj said:

Anyone have a link to Ellifritz’s studies?

Click to expand...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

VooDoo

Great, but I can get a 9mm in a pistol the same size so why would anyone buy a .380?

"Well, great, but I can get a 9mm in a pistol the same size so why would anyone buy a .380?"

Click to expand...

Only that it is simply false.

I do not know of any 9mm pistol of a size of Ruger LCP or S&W Bodyguard obtainable at a similar price and actually work.

If I actually can get a 9mm the same size, then I would.

I own can carry 380ACP pistols. And, no I do not think 380ACP is as effective as 9mm AT ALL. However, I still have it because there is no 9mm that meets my standard that I can conceal and carry the same way.

Any gun is better than no gun......even better if you can hit your target with it more than once. it's as simple as that.

Now back to the regular scheduled program...........

TestPilot said:

Only that it is simply false.

I do not know of any 9mm pistol of a size of Ruger LCP or S&W Bodyguard obtainable at a similar price and actually work.

If I actually can get a 9mm the same size, then I would.

I own can carry 380ACP pistols. And, no I do not think 380ACP is as effective as 9mm AT ALL. However, I still have it because there is no 9mm that meets my standard that I can conceal and carry the same way.

Click to expand...

Precisely.

I appreciate the link to the article being posted.
For those complaining about "beating a dead horse" and "discussed ad nauseum", well where are you when the almost daily "which pistol caliber carbine should I get" threads arise?

As for .380 vs 9 - I own a few .380's, don't carry them anymore but would if the situation arose. Fortunately being retired from an employer where being caught with a gun would mean instant dismissal, means I have a lot more flexibility.

Some of us never owned any handgun until approx. one year ago.
The first CCW was acquired about two months ago (age 59).

Nobody is required to click their mouse on any topic, but it can benefit those of us who are decades late to the potentially life-changing activity of CCW. Other topics are just two/three clicks away.

I always get a weird feeling when folks on "discussion forums" get frustrated when some folks wanna discuss some topic many times. It's a discussion forum...what's the point if we aren't gonna "discuss" things?

Then it would be a "sticky forum" or a Wiki page - it's *all* been discussed to death...why even talk about it? Just pop a bunch of stickies up there and read way. It's all already been said so why discuss anything, right?

Nahhhh. I like rehashing it.

VooDoo