Tossing guns into the sea !

Don't know what arms they're dunking, but some time ago someone on some board suggested that they should have ships stationed in international waters to "check in" the guns for them before they went into port, then check them back out again when heading out to sea.

I'm not 100% sure the suggestion was made in jest.

But I guess the economics of it makes it cheaper to just dunk 'em.

Terry

so they dump the guns before entering port.... but when they leave port for home or where ever.... they are unarmed. smart money is to get the ships after they leave port for home....

Just plain dumb. I hope they are dumping the worn out African garbage as was mentioned earlier. Either way it's a waste.

so they dump the guns before entering port.... but when they leave port for home or where ever.... they are unarmed. smart money is to get the ships after they leave port for home....

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I guess maybe on the way back, they're deadheading it? Just loaded with ballast water?

WestKentucky said:

Just plain dumb. I hope they are dumping the worn out African garbage as was mentioned earlier. Either way it's a waste.

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as much as it may seem "dumb" to dump them overboard, a few thousand in disposable small arms is cheap protection. The captain would have to make very sure no arms or ammo were left on-board as to risk the ship's seizure and crew imprisonment. And in a non-US prison too. What's the ship, cargo and crew freedom worth? More than the small arms.

chuck

It would seem that if you had a decent sized ship you could set off in International waters and either hold the guns for the guys in port or buy them very cheap and resell them to the next bunch who needs them.
There could be some money in that.

krupparms said:

I am sure there are several Africa nations that would be glad to sell some AKs, ect. to these companies. One of the arguments is that if they aren't dumped, there are concerned they'll be resold to whoever! There was no mention of who verified the arms were actually dumped. I would think there are enough AKs & other Warsaw pact wepons for sale that it is cheaper to dump. The guns and security group stay in pirate waters. The tankers & cargo ships drop them off and pick them up at the arsenal ships as they enter & exit the A.O.& pass into the Atlantic or Pacific.

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nail on the head.

I had a room mate that was in the Navy. They'd either shoot up or dump ammo overboard before going into some foreign ports.

Just a cost of doing business. Like printer cartridges. Use 'em, toss 'em when your finished. Get new ones when you need more.

You can trade a bundle of Khat for an AK, HK or FAL in some parts of Africa. The area is awash with them. Joe

From what little is being written, the teams offshore are staying offshore. And they are all former professional level "security experts" who are making good money on contracted security with ships lined up in scheduling for their services.

It's not like they are dumping THEIR personal equipment. Professionals don't use AK's much. On board, the weapon of choice and experience would more than likely resemble a MK18 MOD 1, not an AK. Not many Mk18s floating around in Africa.

Not many pro's spend months in training to gain expertise and muscle memory for tactical operations who carelessly switch to a different gun with worse ergonomics, a bulkier profile, and who knows what kind of maintenance record or round count thru it. It's not the teams intent to endanger their life, mission, and crewmembers.

So, sure, if they board or repel a pirate skiff offshore, who's to know what they might keep, or simply toss on the spot? Why seize junk? Dump it.

For your consideration and offered "for entertainment purposes only":

http://glomarsec.com/

https://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment...ivate-Security-Solution-to-Somali-Piracy--The

http://www.fulcrum-maritime.com/lri...ry?OpenAgent&Category=Anti Piracy Information

http://www.icoc-psp.org/uploads/Signatory_Companies_-_June_2012_-_New_Companies.pdf

There's plenty more on the subject, including reporting incidents to an overwatch institution. We may joke about losing a firearm the last time we were on the lake, I suspect that phrases like "all known parties and their equipment were lost at sea" is fairly common.

Ya know, a lot of these guys have had AK's fired at them in anger, it's not a weapon that is welcome when seen. Bonus points to throwing them overboard at every opportunity. Or just watching them slip beneath the waves.

Just because they were dumped overboard doesn't mean they couldn't be retrieved.
They would have to be in very deep water and widely scattered to make it not worth the time and effort.

Scuba off the Horn, anybody?

TCB

Seems a ship heading into port can dump the guns onto the deck of a ship leaving the same port.

I think it's interesting that some "legal authorities" seem to be remarkably concerned about the continued health and well being of pirates . . . perhaps there's a profit motive involved?

HankB said:

I think it's interesting that some "legal authorities" seem to be remarkably concerned about the continued health and well being of pirates . . . perhaps there's a profit motive involved?

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I generally chalk stuff like up to a desire for government dependence.

When you aren't allowed firearms for effectively and efficiently defending yourself, you must rely on the government and their guns.

"...Scuba off the Horn..." Salt water and great, big, man eating, fish. Oh, and pirates. snicker.
Technically, International law forbids armed merchant ships. This isn't that though. The owners of the security company wouldn't have to dump 'em if they'd just pay the, um gratuity to the local harbour types.
Apparently, there was a foreign owned ship(S.E.A., I think) stopped by Canada Customs, recently, that declared the AK's they had locked up. No big deal

I'd wager this is another case of "all my guns were lost during an unfortunate boating accident."

redneck2 said:

I had a room mate that was in the Navy. They'd either shoot up or dump ammo overboard before going into some foreign ports.

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They may do this for training (shooting), but naval vessels do not give up their arms when they pull into ANY port. Period.

Naval vessels are warships, period. Even the support ships. If it comes down to having to disarm before pulling into a foreign port, then the Captain simply won't pull into that port.

^^^Amen to that! The world's most powerful navy should never bow down to some foreign entity. If they don't like it, let the 16" boys do the talkin!

g.willikers said:

Just because they were dumped overboard doesn't mean they couldn't be retrieved.
They would have to be in very deep water and widely scattered to make it not worth the time and effort.

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One might do well to take a look at where the international waters boundaries are in relation to the continental shelf. In general international waters start at 12 nautical miles from the low-water line of the coast. It's a bit more complicated than that. Then take a look at the continental shelves and note where the 100 fathom curve lies.

There are few places in the world where the ocean is not "very deep" once one has crossed into international waters. One does not have to actually cross the 100 fathom curve in order for such recovery efforts to be cost prohibitive. Simply charting a boat to reach the site will likely exceed the value of any guns dumped, even expensive, high quality ones.

Not to mention what conditions the guns themselves will be in for having spent any time at all submerged in ocean waters.

The crew should put the guns in a waterproof bag tied to a long rope and small bouy. Mark the gps coordinates where you put the guns in the water, and then pick them back up after leaving port.

Ok, I'm not very "ship savvy", but isn't there a way to construct a false wall somewhere in a ship to create a space big enough for a hidden gun locker?

rondog said:

Ok, I'm not very "ship savvy", but isn't there a way to construct a false wall somewhere in a ship to create a space big enough for a hidden gun locker?

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Yes. And it's been done several times with smuggling.
However many of those who are searching the ships know exactly what to look for.
The risk isn't worth the reward to these guys obviously.