.22lr MEGATHREAD

tark said:

There is a word for people who have ten times the ammo on hand they can possibly shoot up in five lifetimes.

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I don't think there are any such people out there.

If there are, I need to find them and make friends!

tark said:

The word is Hoarding and it is a mental disorder. I have a word of my own but the moderator would remove it and slap my hand.

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You sound jealous. It's okay, I am too.

tark said:

I have a couple of thousand rounds of .22 and It will take me five years to shoot that much.

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Sounds like you are a collector and not a shooter. Nothing wrong with that, but some people shoot.

Nothing against free market profiteers but I do hope they lose big.

If I shot them like I wanted a couple thousand rounds might last nine months. Now I shoot about half that trying to not run out. I refuse to pay more than 8 cents for bulk 22's.

Ya, I do feel sorry for those just trying to buy plinking ammo at their local retailer, when non can be had or priced so high, in many parts of the country. Maybe 2 more years and we might see a loosening up of the plinking ammo?? Just grin and bear it for the time being with hopes pricing will come down along with shipping if over the internet.

I don't think there are any such people out there.

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Yes, there is. These are randomly pulled from the web..

Depends on your needs, not counting .22 I have between 100-200k

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I try to keep over 50,000 rounds on hand minimum, and prefer closer to 100,000 rounds...You never know.

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15,000 or so .22LR
(1000 Subsonic, 5000 HP, 1000 lead free, 8000 Normal)

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Do you really think 15,000 (or 50,000) rounds of .22lr is more than a person could use in 5 lifetimes?

Again, it is clear you are not a shooter. Which is fine. But no need to start insulting people who are because you personally cannot fathom going out and shooting through quantities of ammo.

Edit: I just realized you are the guy who bought his very first gun/first .22lr a week ago.

Please stop making up reasons to insult people while acting like you know everything there is to know about every person's shooting habits.

I don't know who you are in reference to warp, but I didn't make the "5 lifetimes" statement.

I love to chew bubble gum, but do I keep 50,000 pieces of it in my closet? Nope.

In a sense it's fine to use a whole bunch of something, but it's not really making use of common sense to keep a whole bunch of something, when most people just buy it when they need it.

thirty-ought-six said:

I don't know who you are in reference to warp, but I didn't make the "5 lifetimes" statement.

I love to chew bubble gum, but do I keep 50,000 pieces of it in my closet? Nope.

In a sense it's fine to use a whole bunch of something, but it's not really making use of common sense to keep a whole bunch of something, when most people just buy it when they need it.

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Go back and read.

This was posted:

tark said:

There is a word for people who have ten times the ammo on hand they can possibly shoot up in five lifetimes.

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I quoted it and said:

Warp said:

I don't think there are any such people out there.

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You then quoted me ^ and said that yes indeed there were and then talked about guys with 15,000 or 50,000 rounds of .22lr.

Nobody cares if you keep 50,000 pieces of bubble gum or 50,000 rounds of .22lr in your closet (or 15,000 of either). That is your own personal decision and choice (if it is within your means).

And yes, it absolutely makes sense to keep a lot on hand.

Who do you think it is that is complaining non-stop about the .22lr availability right now? The people who thought ahead and had enough on hand, or the ones who planned on buying what they wanted right when they wanted it??

I mean, are you seriously telling us, here at the end of >2 years of limited availability, that it does not make sense to do anything other than plan on being able to walk out and buy it? Is this real life?

Regardless of whether there are large numbers of people trying to hoard many tens of thousands of rounds (I'm a bit skeptical), you don't need that to explain why .22 is so much in demand.

How many gun owners in the US? Seems like the last number I heard was 80 million, so I'll start with that.

Say half of them have a .22, you have 40 million .22 owners.

Now say only 1 in 8 actually wants to shoot the thing regularly, and for the rest it's just something they have for some reason. That's 5 million frequent shooters.

Suppose "frequent" means 20 times a year, and you shoot 100 rounds each time, which is about what I would *like* to do, although I never seem to make it out that often. Five million x 20 x 100 = 10 billion rounds a year. Or 200 million bricks!

Back in the day, some people might wait until they almost needed the next brick to buy, but now anyone with any foresight wants to be at least a couple of bricks ahead to carry them through the next year, and that would bump that demand up by a factor of two or more. So, maybe the instantaneous demand is 20 billion rounds.

That's my guesstimate of annual legitimate demand for .22LR, without actual hoarding. That seems like a lot of little cartridges. So, which of my assumptions is most wrong? And how does this compare to the actual annual production of .22LR?

Anyway, if Federal AutoMatch ever reappears in the wild and sells for 8 cents a round or less, I'll be a happy boy. I love that stuff. Not holding my breath, though.

And yes, it absolutely makes sense to keep a lot on hand.

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On hand for what exactly?

The stockpiling of mass amounts of ammo is one thing, but when people stoop so low to change clothes and bring their buddies who don't even own a firearm to get around store limits, in all honesty it's a sickness.

In grade school people are taught the concept of sharing, so everyone has a little of something, instead of one selfish brat having everything.

Some people grow up and never quite grasp that concept, and have the mentality of "I'll take as much as I can get, screw everyone else".


But putting that aside, it's not really an issue of the hoarders, it's an issue of the scalpers.


All sources of cheap ammo need to be extinguished and stores should charge $50 per brick. Yes it does suck but if this keeps going this "shortage" could drag on for years.


Once the cheap sources are gone, scalpers won't stay around, and ammo will stay on the shelves, and then the retailers can turn down the prices slowly.

If the scalpers are going to keep making money, they are going to keep lining up at counters at 4 in the morning to buy ammo for $20 a brick, and turn around and sell it for $40-$60 a brick.

thirty-ought-six said:

On hand for what exactly?

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For shooting.

Why are you so intent on finding reasons to call people names and insult them?

I don't have a problem with hoarders, but when people hoard so much that it makes me have nothing, then I have a problem.

Answer me this, how can anyone justify that they need so much of something, it leaves others without, other than not caring for your fellow man?
Sure, hoarding is a little "odd", but tons of people do it. I don't have an issue with it as a I just said.

To be honest, I doubt anyone here has single handedly undermined my own availability of ammunition.

It's the rule benders that brag about taking their buddies to Walmart to buy 12 bricks of 22 just for him or herself that I have a problem with.

If anyone here hoarded when 22 was bursting out of the doors of sporting good stores, more power to them, I could care less.

It's the people who are bending rules to get as much for themselves leaving little for others that make me sick.

We get it. You just bought a .22lr and are mad at everybody because they are buying .22lr ammo and you want to just be able to walk into the store and buy it anytime you want at any price you want.

I went to the KCK Cabela's twice in the last 2 weeks and they had 22 both times. Both Winchester bricks and Remington. Yes, people were buying them and they sold out pretty fast. They also had some Norma target loads and Remington standard, now "subsonic", velocity.
West side wallywerld in Lawrence had the subsonic Remington in boxes on the shelf as well.

thirty-ought-six said:

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So what is wrong with this ammo, exactly?

http://www.bullets.com/products/TAC-22-LR-40-Grain-RN-Ammo-Box-of-50/BL7819

.22 Scudoo

Warp said:

We get it. You just bought a .22lr and are mad at everybody because they are buying .22lr ammo and you want to just be able to walk into the store and buy it anytime you want at any price you want.

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Yeah, me too !

Nope - here .22LR is NEVER at Walmart or other stores as well. Distributors/Stores basically made a decision that the supply lines aren't going to reach this far west. It sucks, and it may be hard to believe but you are welcome to come and look for yourself.

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Yep. It's a bonafide conspiracy hatched and perpetuated by those of us on the East Coast. And no, I don't want to "come and look for [myself]" because I more than meet the needs of myself and my family here on the East Coast by simply keeping my eye open for ammunition anytime I make a trip to any of the local Walmarts or sporting goods stores.

There is a word for people who have ten times the ammo on hand they can possibly shoot up in five lifetimes.

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Smart? Parents? Grandparents? Instructors? Scoutmasters? Prepared? Patriots? Investors? Lucky? Realistic?

And who are you, I, or anybody else to say that ANY amount someone else may have is more than "they can possibly shoot up in five lifetimes"?


I don't care WHO buys the ammunition and I don't care HOW MUCH they buy. I don't even care if it's the so-called "scalpers". Why? Because when the rubber hits the road, BILLIONS MORE rounds of ammunition are ending up in the hands of civilians today than at any other time in history. And if .22 consumption sustains a new, higher demand over the long run, that means that the businesses will be growing economically in the long run.

Tell me how that's a BAD thing?

RetiredUSNChief said:

Yep. It's a bonafide conspiracy hatched and perpetuated by those of us on the East Coast. And no, I don't want to "come and look for [myself]" because I more than meet the needs of myself and my family here on the East Coast by simply keeping my eye open for ammunition anytime I make a trip to any of the local Walmarts or sporting goods stores

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First my comment was directed at Ford8nr. He was doubting my localized findings. Not sure why you would take umbrage at that. 2nd of all, I do not in any way believe there are conspiratorial powers at work. Simply a normal thing to do. If you can sell all you make as close as possible why use expenses to deliver further out?

if .22 consumption sustains a new, higher demand over the long run, that means that the businesses will be growing economically in the long run.

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As much as I hate the auction scalpers and all the hassle that this recent shortage has caused, that right there is the only silver lining from it all.
The more guns and ammo out there, the better. Even during these hard times I have brought at least a half dozen new shooters out and let them
shoot my .22s and every one wants to do it more. Higher demand will lead to more supply.

Warp said:

So what is wrong with this ammo, exactly?

http://www.bullets.com/products/TAC-22-LR-40-Grain-RN-Ammo-Box-of-50/BL7819

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The fact that at a brick it would be almost $50

OilyPablo said:

First my comment was directed at Ford8nr. He was doubting my localized findings. Not sure why you would take umbrage at that. 2nd of all, I do not in any way believe there are conspiratorial powers at work. Simply a normal thing to do. If you can sell all you make as close as possible why use expenses to deliver further out?

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I made that comment because your assertion is both invalid and unsupported.


CCI, for example, is located in Lewiston, Idaho which is arguably significantly closer to Washington state than the East Coast.

Remington's ammunition plant is located in Lonoke, Arkansas, which I'd say is fairly central with respect to relative distances from the two coasts.

Federal's plant in Anoka, Minnesota is, likewise, pretty much central between the two coasts.

Winchester's primary facility is located in East Alton, Illinois which, again, is pretty much central.

Walmart, being the store in question here, is about as good as it gets with respect to coast-to-coast operations and they keep their various stores in business by keeping them stocked. Which means they make shipments to their stores all the time for EVERYTHING they carry...and shipping ammunition along with those other items doesn't cost them squat in terms of dollars per volume/weight in comparison to all the other stuff they ship.


So your argument about supply lines doesn't really hold water on an economic basis. So if this is, in fact, happening, then it must be for some nefarious means, hence the conspiracy thing.


If you could cite some kind of credible source that says that all the U.S. manufacturers of .22 LR then please do so.


Now, please don't think I'm doubting the availability of ammunition in the stores you're talking about. After all, you are the one living there, not me. Whenever I go back to Puget Sound Naval Shipyard on another engineering support job, I'll be happy to visit the various Walmarts to see for myself. Of course, by then the market may have shifted significantly and will make my observations invalid with respect to our current conversation.

I, too, have difficulty finding .22 LR ammo in the various Walmarts on the East Coast, between Virginina (where I work) and South Carolina (where I live). However, my hunting/buying strategies are apparently different from a lot of other people's.

First of all, I have plenty on hand to supply all my families shooting needs as a buffer. Which means I can afford to simply look for .22 whenever I happen to be out and about for other things...and when I do find it, I buy in order to help replenish/maintain/increase my current reserves. I don't allow my stores to be depleted to the point where I MUST find some NOW if we want to go shooting/hunting.

This is what I recommend to anybody else...buy sufficient ammo over time to create a reserve that will support whatever amount of shooting they wish such that they have the time to casually look for and buy whatever they find incidentally to their other shopping activities.


Oh, and by the way...I built a lot of that reserve up AFTER the current ammo debacle started. I currently have about 6,000 to 8,000 rounds of LR and about 4,000 rounds of WMR. The WMR was the result of casually building up my reserves over a period of a few years while I was still active duty and my deployment schedule/family time didn't allow me much time for shooting. The LR amounts were post-2012 purchases.

thirty-ought-six said:

The fact that at a brick it would be almost $50

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But that price is not a "scalper's price". Norma TAC-22 is a "High Performance Target" ammo, what some may call "match-grade", which is going for virtually the same price as it was pre-SH. As a result, it's actually AVAILABLE for people to buy.

Here's my opinion...if people are really all that upset about the price of .22 LR ammunition and they really believe scalper's are the cause for it, then they OUGHT to be buying the top-of-the-line match grade ammunition by various manufacturers for the same price. After all, if they're going to have to pay match-grade prices, they might as well be buying the quality that actually goes along with it, right?

People complain all the time about how they can ONLY get the .22 LR they need/want at scalper's prices. That's simply not true. They simply need to shift their paradigm and quit buying the lower quality ammunition which is selling at or above premium quality ammunition prices. I understand the out-of-pocket expense is still about the same...but at least you're getting the high quality you would otherwise expect and you're not contributing to "scalpers".

"Yo, dude! I'll sell you this brick of Golden Bullets for $60!"

"No, thanks...I'm having a brick of match-grade shipped to me for $50!"


See? Problem solved!

Ford8nr. He was doubting my localized findings.

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IF you do work at Cabelas then you are aware you can order ammo on line from them and have it shipped to the store for FREE and pick it up at your convience. My wife and I did that recently with MiniMags and picked up several more boxes that were in stock when we were at the store. DOUBLE SCORE.
Why are people stockpiling? Two years ago at the height of the shortage several of our league shooters DIDNT SHOOT because they'd buy what the needed at the start if the season. I was lucky because I had enough to get through the year. I was lucky to see the problem and get backorders in for two cases which I have since received. I placed two more backorders one which will end up being canceled on the sellers 1 year old policy, the other I'm letting ride at 18 months old. I'll shoot 2000rds / year in leagues plus practice, my wife will shoot 500-1000 rds/yr. I will NEVER let my ammo cabinet drop below 10,000rds. I'll also keep several thousand primers and several pounds of my favorite powders on hand. It's called being prepared for the next shortage, or tax.

I have over 20k rounds of 22 LR on hand. I had probably 15k rounds after Sandy Hook because I, like most, didn't really worry about 22 becoming a huge problem. I have given away around 10k rounds in the past two years (I shipped 5k rounds to a buddy in Montana last May). My/our normal usage of 22 LR is around 20k per year. That number could be half or double based on what kids are actively involved in our range sessions but it's close enough for government work. I currently live in GA but shoot in Alabama.
How is it that I have been able to keep up my current shooting habits, never run out of ammo AND give away a bunch of ammo? None of this ammo has been purchased at local stores (I misled in an earlier post when I said I have not bought any 22 LR ammo at local stores since SH because I have actually bought three boxes of powderless at a local store. I only use it for squirrel control so I don't shoot a lot.) As I said earlier, I have purchased all of this ammo from online retailers and have not "over paid" for any of it. At this very moment there are multiple online retailers offering 22 ammo at less than $.10 per round and none of them are running out quickly. That price is too high for me because I am not running out but it should be perfectly acceptable for a guy that only shoots a brick a month or a brick a year. Surely most people have a debit card so they can go to Midway RIGHT NOW and pick up a brick of CCI for $40 or wait a day and I promise someone will pop up online with bricks for less than $30. That's still too much for me but all this complaining about "There isn't ANY 22 ammo available" is just whining.
How much I have on hand has absolutely nothing to do with what other people want/need . I feel no need to leave some for the next guy. If Midway allows three boxes then I will buy three boxes. If you don't have any to let your son go shooting then I hat it for you but it's not going to change my buying habits. The one box or three box limits are in place so that people like me can't buy a pallet at a time so take advantage of it while you can and lay in a couple of bricks when they become available. Stop relying on Walmart and Bass Pro to fill your needs.
There is a shortage of 22. It has been short for over two years. Every once in a while there is a light at the end of the tunnel but it seems that the light keeps being extinguished quickly and people go into whiny mode again. Put on your big boy pants and stop blaming everyone else for your problem.

PS. I also provided ammo to my local sheriff for his Lady's training class because the ladies couldn't find any ammo and weren't signing up for the classes. They signed up and were able to buy two boxes of ammo at the class. It was all Federal or Winchester bulk and he sold it for $17 per box and paid me $15 because that is about what I had in it. I provided .45, 38 and 9mm with the majority, probably 80%, being 9mm.

I went to two places today, an actual gun store, and a "farm and home" type store.

The gun store just had match grade 22, at a decent price, but nothing else.

The "Farm and home" type store, had subsonic and powderless, both which stated would not cycle in a semi-auto.

It's a good feeling to at least SEE 22 again, but the cheaper stuff is still gone.