They'd sell like hotcakes if they were only brought back!

Ammo cost also kills some guns. The bulk of the AR/AK crowd relies on cheap, highly available surplus and overstock ammo. If .223/7.62 was priced like 44/357 mag, you'd see market trends swing.

Limited production runs, like those supplied by American Remembers, are a nuance to this thread. They target collectors willing to pay exorbitant prices for a piece of history. They have expressed production limits.

Many of the old guns have patents that require the manufacturer to pay a fee in addition to all its startup and marketing costs. And let’s not forget taxes and political pressures of unfriendly firearms states.

Few new companies can freshly enter the firearms industry. Few venture capitalists would be willing to front a new company producing old, discontinued guns. What we have seen is a consolidation of old companies. Ruger et al. are smart enough to know what products to launch.

Interestingly, the Obama administration has fueled the desire for Americans to purchase firearms. But that demand is not for the classics of yesteryear.

It will be interesting to see how many manufacturers in the AR-15 arena remain in business now that the price has drastically dropped.

BTW, I have yet to see a line at Dennys waiting for hotcakes.

I agree with Alexander on the Marlin Camp .45.

It would have to be redesigned not to need the buffer, and with a polymer stock with integrated 1913 rails.
But a CT legal, modern carbine to share mags with my 1911... I'd push old ladies out of the way to get to the counter of my LGS and buy one.

Funny you say that on the 1911 mags. I think that is part of why folks don't like the 45, lack of double-stack stick mags. With 30 rounders the norm in AK/AR variants, 15 or so just doesn't cut it in a rifle market. Make the camp 9 and 45 both take glock mags and you'd be in business. Mossberg did a similar thing with the MVP. Lack of quality >10 capacity mags is why I sold my HP 9 carbine.

Marlin, if you're listening, thread the new Glock mag Camp 9 for a straight choke for shotshells while you're at it.

I doubt that there is much of a market for old school pistol caliber carbines when you can get High Points, Keltecs and AR's to just name a few.

Aragon said:

FWIW, some of the charges you make are ridiculous.

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Reread that and take it as sarcasm, I did. It makes sense as those arguments are heard all the time bashing PCCs, as baseless as they are. AR idolatry and 223 as the supreme cartridge seem to dominate internet forums anymore, this one included. It wasn't that way a few years ago.

roadchoad said:

[AR idolatry and 223 as the supreme cartridge seem to dominate internet forums anymore, this one included. It wasn't that way a few years ago.

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I can kind of understand the love affair with the AR, it being the modern mans sporting rifle and all lol

I don't get the love of the .223. What was wrong with the good ol' .308?!

Aragon said:

It's sometimes amusing when someone suggests that a certain firearm would "sell like hotcakes" if only it were put back into production, even though they were typically taken off the market because they were poor sellers. Here are some of my favorites:

1. Ruger Model 44 carbine in .44M. ---> nope

2. IMI Timber Wolf pump carbine in .357M. ---> nope

3. Colt Python (given the price sure to be charged.) ---> maybe

4. Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or .45ACP. ---> nope

5. Ruger PC9 9mm Carbine. ---> nope

Almost all pistol caliber carbines. That's very interesting.

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That's what I think.

I'm personally interested in a pump action revolver round carbine like the Timberwolf. The Deerfield and later 99/44 carbines are a neat idea, but if they're brought back, the stock should be more aking to those on the "Mini" series. I'm not a fan of crescent buttstocks.

As much as I would like to see the above, I unfortunately have to agree with those who assert it will never happen. It may seem like the demand for such guns is large, but that's only because those who love them are very vocal about it.

The cold hard truth of the matter is that the gun market is and henceforth shall be ARs, budget bolts, and polymer semi-auto pistols. A minor few wooden stocked rifles and revolvers will remain for the nostalgia market.

Yep, as much as I'd like a Timberwolf I don't think anyone would make it again unless laws forced out the ARs and such.

The Timberwolf was really a utilitarian gun when it was made new. I just never got the chance to buy one and now they are priced well above being a utilitarian gun.

Ditto on pistol caliber carbine. Well not a comeback since very few of them have reached the shelves but how about Keltec actually manufacturing guns like the Sub2000 and shipping them to dealers. Their new 22 Magnum carbine looks nice and fills a hole in firearms but I have my doubts about ever even seeing let alone it being cheap enough to afford.

I have seen exactly two of their PMR-30 handguns for sale.

Beretta has been making their 9mm Storm for a long time so there is a market.

> didn't sell

Often it was no fault of the rifle. Sometimes it had to do with unrealistic pricing; no, it doesn't cost twice as much to build a gun in .44 vs. .38, or .458 vs. .30-30. Sometimes the manufacturer put forth so little marketing effort nobody knew the gun existed, typically hoping their distributors would do all that dirty customer stuff.

chicharrones said:

Yep, as much as I'd like a Timberwolf I don't think anyone would make it again unless laws forced out the ARs and such.

The Timberwolf was really a utilitarian gun when it was made new. I just never got the chance to buy one and now they are priced well above being a utilitarian gun.

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It wouldn't necessarily have to be the Timberwolf itself. I just like the idea of a pump action carbine chambered for magnum revolver rounds as an alternative to lever action 1894s and 1892s.

There are a few advantages that manually operated firearms have over semi-autos. Unfortunately, I think I'm the only person who sees that.

Yup, failed commercially once...

Let's give 'em another round and then harass them if the choices don't fill our particular niches.

The berating of the proposed rerelease of the Colt 1903 and modern take on the Remington 51 come to mind.

When it's a modern manufacturer seeking to reintroduce an iconic firearm like the Winchester '73 or even the 1903, I get it.

When people clamor for a design that was essentially "still-born" the first time around, I chuckle.

I see this all the time in the motorcycle industry. "If only they'd make/import..." Then it happens and the magazine "editors" and statistical wonks set about telling the world what the product ISN'T thereby scaring off a vast portion of potential customers.

Todd.

When BAR and FG42 remakes sell for under 5k$, I do question repros like the STG44's slated to go north of that (must be rich collectors of Axis wares, thinks I, but that's just me thinking...). Compared to milling each and every receiver from block like the BAR, with a billion arcane operations, cutting some dies doesn't amount to squat. I suspect they won't actually sell for that much, but need to get at least a few very pricey pre orders locked down to proceed with the bank loan. Once they are further down the road to development, nothing prevents them from making more than stated (esp. given this design) at a lower price. Many collectors jumping in on these things could even be investors, standing to recoup some costs once production takes off (or are willing to pay more up front to simply get the project moving --a quality too many consumers don't fully appreciate)

TCB

I think Ruger could make the 44mag successful if they brought it back as a Take Down Charger pistol like they're doing with the 10/22.




....and I would buy a Python if they came back.

1. Colt Woodsman .22
2. Whitney Wolverine
3. Ruger Old Army Stainless
4. '65 Corvette Stingray convertible
5. Colt Python

I'd like a nice blued or parkerized and wood stocked 9mm carbine like the Marlin or Ruger in the $500 range.

I have a Hi-Point, and while it shoots ok for $200, it's crude and I can't stomach $800 for a Beretta carbine or $400 for a plastic Keltec. And the dedicated 9mm AR's are close to $1000 for proprietary uppers/lowers that accept glock mags, and I don't want anything to do with the colt/uzi mag lowers.

ATLDave said:

I think a Colt Detective Special would sell pretty darn well. A 6-shot small-frame snubbie? Seems like a good fit for where a lot of the market is.

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Maybe the DS-II. They'll never bring back the V-spring action.

Savage99 said:

Aragon,

You wrote that the following would sell:
"1. Ruger Model 44 carbine in .44M.

No interest, it's just a little blooper bullet, What's in now is long range!

2. IMI Timber Wolf pump carbine in .357M.
Blooper (I never heard of it?)

3. Colt Python (given the price sure to be charged.)
I got one when they came out. The forcing cone split open, Colt fixed it back then however they are out of business. An out of balance confection
4. Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm or .45ACP.

5. Ruger PC9 9mm Carbine.
What's it good for? Charging mice>

Almost all pistol caliber carbines."
NO

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I agree wholeheartedly...

Big facepalm of a thread here.

Before someone else says it;

"Bring back the Mateba!"

face palm-er (and I say that as a proud, but very careful, owner ). I'd rather bring back the Manurhin MR73 than the Python; those guns were even tougher than they were good looking, unlike the vaunted Snakes. Better action for rapid DA fire than S&W and Colt put together, too (very short stroke).

Let's see if I can recall the whole list that inevitably gets generated in these threads:
-Python
-Registered Magnum
-MP412
-Mateba 6 Unica
-SPAS 12
-MR73
-C96 Mauser
-C93 Borchardt*
-K31 Target Rifle
-Beretta BM59
-STG44
-VG-1
-MP40 (heck, every German gun made before the G3)
-Solothurn MP34 (heck, every SMG made before WWII)
-Solothurn S-18/100 (import it as a .499 BMG if you have to )
-Swiss Luger
-Finnish Lahti Pistol (heck, every antiquated gun that requires metal shapers in its construction )
-All pre-WWII box fed LMG's in semi-auto civilian variants (BREN, BAR, etc.)
-STGW 57 (heck, every Swiss gun ever made beside their MG3 clone)
-Pre '64 Winchesters (think about the logic of that for a minute)
-Fudd guns () like disbanded Ruger and Remington models that were never popular beyond the 2% of people that actually hunt, and are even less so now. Bonus for original wood/blued finishes that can magically take more abuse than plastic/coated modern offerings
-Last and most important; at prices competitive with far more practical and popular designs, if not less, precisely because they are less practical and popular

TCB

*With so few examples, and such a long time since anyone has had experience with them, I think a non-authentic repro preserving the external layout, with a modern interior to facilitate production could do surprisingly well. While the months after Red Dead Redemption was distributed would have been the most recent ideal jumping off point, many folks would love the chance to force a semi-auto into Cowboy Action Shooting events