FTE-what did I do wrong here?

Could be a lot of things. My questions would be: Just this once? If more than one, same magazine? What ammunition? Reloaded ammunition? Brand of magazines? Brand new gun? Gun make and model? When last cleaned?

Just watch it the next time you shoot,it could be a limp wrist.

Was this the last round in the magazine?

If so, you've got an extractor problem. The extractor is losing control of the empty case and with no following rounds in the magazine to push the empty case out of the ejection port it simply sits there on top of the now empty magazine.

That appears to be the slide of a 1911. If i am correct in that, take limpwristing off the table. Even with a severely and deliberate limp wrist, it is difficult to induce a malfunction in a 1911.

Next range trip, put only one round in the magazine and check Steve's theory. He's probably on to something.

I'll say the extractor needs more tension. A good test is to load the pistol, drop the magazine, and fire. Repeat 10 times, check where the brass lands, it should all be in the same general area.

When new, my SA Range Officer did the same thing every 25 or so rounds. I added a little tension to the extractor 3500+ rounds ago, it has run like a champ ever since.

p.s. Don't be shy with lube.

Urban_Redneck said:

A good test is to load the pistol, drop the magazine, and fire. Repeat 10 times, check where the brass lands, it should all be in the same general area.

Click to expand...

This is an excellent test of the extractor. I first learned it while taking a class with Hilton Yam. If you experience a single failure of the case not ejecting properly, you've got an extractor problem. If a case falls out the bottom of the mag well, you KNOW you have an extractor problem.

I've seen crud limit the pivot movement of the extractor. Thought it needed a new one, but when it was removed/cleaned/re-installed the function was as-new.
And this gun was regularly cleaned, but not "deep cleaned".

RA40 said:

Was also suspecting that the extractor may be clocking because now and then a case into the forehead greets me. The firing pin stop is far from a snug fit and the extractor does slightly rotate. (I'm in frequent with the 45's so I attribute any cases to the forehead as my technique.

Click to expand...

A clocking extractor can result in the extractor losing control of extracted cases. It's not always predictable and can present intermittently. An EGW oversized firing pin stop will stop the clocking. A shooter's firing technique should have nothing to do with faulty extraction or ejection.

This is easy... You loaded your ammo backwards.

RA40 said:

Do you think changing the recoil spring may help here?

Click to expand...

Very unlikely. Using standard pressure factory 230gr FMJ ammo a 5" 1911 should function perfectly with a wide range of recoil spring weights. This forum's famous 1911 Tuner has a video in which he fires an entire magazine of hardball with no recoil spring in the pistol at all. Of course, the pistol doesn't load itself after it goes bang but extraction and ejection are flawless.

An oversized firing pin stop will have to be fitted. I fit mine using common 320 grit sandpaper available from Home Depot.

Personally, I would fit both an oversized firing pin stop and a new EGW, Wilson, Cylinder & Slide, Ed Brown, or Nighthawk extractor. But that's me. You may be able to solve the problem with just a new firing pin stop.

After 50 years of shooting I believe most malfunctions occur due to dirt at some point in system, having said that the 1911 made for and loves straight
ball ammo.

RA40 said:

The firing pin stop was the first attempt to remedy the extractor from clocking. I had about 5 casings to the forehead out of a 50 round box. No jams, there is a brass trial on the front of the ejection port. One of the cases got mangled at the mouth. Shooting Star mags were used or this session.

Click to expand...

The magazines are not causing your problem. My assumption is that you fit the firing pin stop so that the extractor does not rotate. The cases are still falling off the extractor. At this point my suggest is to put in the new extractor. You have to be concerned with bevels, deflection, and tension when fitting a new extractor.

The extractor can cause feeding problems or extraction/ejection problems if not properly fit.

Feeding

To allow thw the case cannot slide freely up under the extractor areas "D", "G", and "F" in the picture below must be gently rounded. Just a little bit of rounding should work. If area "D" extends too far up the tensioning wall "C" the case rim may not be in solid contact with the extractor as it moves down the tensioning wall during cycling.

The whole idea with rounding these areas is to allow the case to move into postion without encountering a sharp corner that could dig into it and prevent it from sliding into place.

A side benefit of rounding area "F" is that it allows the empty case to more easily rotate up as it encounters the extractor thus insuring ejection.



In the next picture you can see that the edge of the claw "B" does not touch the case anywhere. This is a perfectly fit extractor. Remove only enough material from "B" to just clear the case. Take off too much and you'll have extraction problems.

Deflection is how much the extractor is forced outward as the case rim slides into place. Ideally, deflection should be 0.010". Some will set deflection as low as 0.005" or as much as 0.015". The amount of deflection is contolled by how close to the firing pin hole the tensioning wall is when it is not holding onto a case. This is determined by the locating pad "E". The more material you remove from the locating pad the closer to the firing pin hole the tensioning wall will be.

With this small amount of deflection the extractor tension can be set quite high and it will function fine. Tension is simply bending the extractor so that it holds onto the case rim tightly enough to withstand the cycling forces without losing control of the case. Too much tension will impede the feeding process. Too little tension and you'll end up with the condition you're experiencing now. If you bend it too much, you can unbend it.

The front of the extractor should not contact the barrel.



Extraction/Ejection

If you can get the extractor beveled and fit as described above, you should be in good shape in terms of extraction/ejection.

As you've already learned a clocking extractor is not your friend. The firing pin stop should not allow the extractor to move and aft or to rotate.

So, these are the basics. There are other nuances and everyone seems to have their own favorite methods but if you can get the basics figured out, you should be able to solve your problem.

You want to decrease the FPS, not increase channel on the slide. Lay the FPS on 400 or higher grit on glass and rub.

"....some fitting in the firing pin stop. It is undersized....."

You mean the FPS is oversized.

The OEM extractor looks like it has been well worked over from the factory. Shows a fair amount of polished angles.

Click to expand...

Well, it' may be polished but I don't see a correct bevel on the lower edge of the tensioning wall nor do I see what I would consider to be a correct bevel on the bottom edge of the hook. Honestly, it looks like a half-assed effort. I magnified the image as much as possible and the bevel on the bottom of the tensioning wall looks like it extends way too far up the side. This could be the root cause of the pistol's problem. Once the contact point with the case rim goes below the brass smear I see, the amount of force exerted on the case rim by the extractor drops significantly. Not good.

By the way, don't use a Dremel on an extractor and you don't need to mirror polish anything on an extractor. The actual inside edge of the claw that grabs the case rim to pull the case out of the chamber should not be rounded at all.

Beginning to get beyond my comfort level.

Click to expand...

Anything new will take anyone out of their comfort zone. I encourage you to give it a try. All the pictures and words can be intimidating but it ain't rocket science. You can do a credible job with a popsicle stick wrapped with a small piece of 320 grit sandpaper. Go slowly, check often, it's easier to remove metal than to put it back on. Remember that you're working on a tiny machine so small dimensional changes will have a big effect. If you're really uncomfortable with this and if you can find a local 'smith who understands 1911s, ask him if he can guide your work or allow you to look over his shoulder as he works on your extractor.