New production, moderized Walther P38s

Starbuck, it would make more sense for Walther to update the P5.
The P5C is still a viable carry gun with increasing value, as is the P5 though more modestly.
Problem is that Walther is conservative and slow to adapt/change (being a smaller company than Sig or Glock) even though the PPS and P99 and PPQ were all ahead of their time.

Look forward to the PPQ 45. The heritage of the P38 is present in the new Walthers.

P-38 Modernized ?

Decisions, decisions ! I like the original P-38 (all steel), and have one ready for home invasion (also have a 1911 for same).
Decisions, decisions! P-38, 1911, and I have a S&W Model 10 by my bedside.
I feel I'm covered (not to mention the 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, SKS, etc.) .

I would still like to see what a new all steel Walther P-38 could offer.

They should make it a striker fired pistol with a 15 round mag. I'd buy one!

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Again - this already exists. It's called the P99AS.

Except that it's more reliable, lighter, and more durable than the P38 design.

Except the P99 doesn't look anything like a P-38. My modernized design of the P-38 (other than losing the hammer and the thicker grip from the new double-stack mag) would retain the basic very-cool appearance of the P-38.

WALTHER P99 & Other

Why are the newer Walthers (& others) starting to look like the Hi-Points ?

And, what's the advantage of striker fired over firing pin/hammer fired ?

I like the P-38 DA/Hammer Lowering Safety system.

You're right... the Walther PPX looks very Hi Pointish. The PPQ, however, looks very modern and stylish IMO.

And, what's the advantage of striker fired over firing pin/hammer fired ?

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1) No changing trigger pull/length/weight between the first and subsequent shots.
2) No need to manipulate a decocking and/or safety lever.
3) Snag-free design with no protruding hammer.
4) Generally faster lock time.

Many shooters don't much care about those things, or don't shoot at a level where they matter, but they seem to be part of the general trend in the progress of handgun design.

I would update the P-5 all the way. I have one and they are superb guns.

Walther has no tooling for a P-38.
The P-38 has a more ammo-sensitive feed system.
The angle of approach to the feedramp & chamber involves more travel & is less of a "high-feed" design.
The DA trigger is not known to be light.

The P-38, somewhat like the 1911, was ground-breaking in its day, but has been surpassed by more modern designs.

It has classic appeal, but limited practicality.
Also limited market, even in somewhat "updated" form.

Denis

Long and short of it is: If it was better, and enough consumers wanted it to justify the costs of tooling up to make it, they'd be doing so. It isn't. They don't. They aren't. They won't. So that's that.

Sometimes you've just got to trust the macro-economics of the situation to give you the answers. If millions of folks AREN'T doing what you think is a great idea, it probably isn't a great idea.

If you want to invest and gamble to try and change the world and make that thing happen, go ahead, put your money up and make it happen. It will either take off and be a great idea, or it will fail and prove the world was right after all.

I seem to recall a 1980's-1980's Croatian design, that had internals like a P38... There was a compact and a service sized gun,both had doubkestack magazines.

gripper said:

I seem to recall a 1980's-1980's Croatian design, that had internals like a P38... There was a compact and a service sized gun,both had doubkestack magazines.

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That would be the 1990's PHP MV 9, 4" barrel or VM 17, 5" barrel.

I like my P.38 and P1 but as far as modernization, it's pretty much been done with the Beretta M9 and family.

Now if FN modernized their Hi Power - better sights, alloy or even polymer frame, shorter barrel, etc. ... now that would be interesting! Something along the lines of the Argentine FM Detective but lighter.

Oh, what the hell....let's redesign and modernize the Luger too.






Nah, let's not.....

Now if FN modernized their Hi Power - better sights, alloy or even polymer frame, shorter barrel, etc. ... now that would be interesting!

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FN did make High Powers with alloy frames and better sights.

P-38 and PHP

See postings # 37 & 38. The PHP was a good example of an attempt to modernize the P-38. While the P-38 had two slide rebounding bars, the PHP had only one below the slide, which was not as reliable a system and tended to cause functioning problems.

I think a reasonably priced luger replica would sell well imo

Luger Replica

Mitchell Arms tried, but Stoeger stole it from them, then it all went South. That was a nice gun.

And, what's the advantage of striker fired over firing pin/hammer fired ?

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1) No changing trigger pull/length/weight between the first and subsequent shots.
2) No need to manipulate a decocking and/or safety lever.
3) Snag-free design with no protruding hammer.
4) Generally faster lock time.

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You forgot one more: striker fired designs usually allow the bore axis to sit lower down in the hand. Hammer fired designs have to make room for the lower end of the hammer -- the part where it pivots -- to sit in the upper grip area, and then more room around that for parts like the sear, drawbar, stirrup, mainspring (usually lower down in the grip), etc.. The rest of the mechanism has to sit on top of all this. The striker fired mechanism doesn't have to make all that room in the upper grip for this, and the whole thing can be lowered down a bit into the hand. The result is a lower bore axis, and thus a recoil impulse that is just a little more straight back and less inclined to torque the muzzle upward.

None of those four characteristics is unique to striker guns. I wish people would stop referring to 'striker fired' when they mean 'Glock pattern' since it's not like that's the only striker design there is. I'm sure there's a striker gun somewhere that's had a decocker fitted to it, and I know for sure there are double, single, & in-between trigger action striker guns. Certainly there are striker guns with manual safeties. With the exception of obnoxious beaver-tailed 1911's and revolvers, the hammer is typically a very small, rounded spur that 'sticks out' in a holster less than the rear end of the slide in practice. The difference is even less when you account for the fact that striker slides stick out further to the rear. Faster lock time maybe, but hammer guns also tend to have superior triggers (or are capable of the same) and aren't as prone to light strikes due to the additional moving mass that makes them slower to swing.

The main advantage of strikers is that they are much easier to disassemble than those pain-in-the-butt heavily tensioned hammer springs (leaf or coil) and ultimately require fewer parts in an industry where parts-count is expensive (Sig Sigma). I think whatever difference in bore-axis consideration is largely due to how the recoil spring arrangement is carried out, rather than the hammer; the R51 has a very low bore axis, and yet is an internally-shrouded hammer design (whose slide profile is very much like a striker gun's, due to the extra length of the shroud)

TCB

Mitchell Arms tried, but Stoeger stole it from them, then it all went South. That was a nice gun.

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Nice, if you could find one that actually worked. This subject came up a day or two ago on The Firing Line, and one owner there had to go through three of them from Mitchell before he got one that actually worked That was their reputation: shooting the Mitchell Luger was a bit like shooting craps.

If you got one that worked, they were beautiful and functioned as a Luger should...

I seem to recall a 1980's-1980's Croatian design, that had internals like a P38... There was a compact and a service sized gun,both had doubkestack magazines.
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That would be the 1990's PHP MV 9, 4" barrel or VM 17, 5" barrel

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See postings # 37 & 38. The PHP

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see also post #23 with picture and link to purchase.

Like this ? php-mv-9




http://www.southernohiogun.com/php-mv-9-9mm-pistol.ht

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I'm sure there's a striker gun somewhere that's had a decocker fitted to it

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The Walther P99. It is also DA/SA.

That is one ugly gun lol