huntsman
Member
I'm not a reloader so going to the store and buying cheap ammo is easier with .380acp
Nine rounds of .380 vs five rounds of .38
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
- Start date
- Status
Gun Master
Member
......and you completely missed the point !!!!!
The .38 Special is a REVOLVER ammo round. (Reliable!!!)
The .380 ACP is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC ammo round. (Potentially a jammer!!!)
true, revolvers are inherently more reliable than semi autos.......and thats something you need to take into consideration.
personally, in my .380, ive fired close to 2,000 rounds without any issues......so even if i had a malfunction tomorrow at the range.....the gun is still 99.9995% reliable, that seems more than acceptable to me.
now are all .380s that reliable?.....well no, some .380s suck, some are probably better....like any gun, you need to test it before you carry it.
so is there the chance that something could malfunction, yes.......is there a likelyhood of a malfunction? depends on your gun, but you cant dismiss it without testing it first.
Deaf Smith
Member
I ain't an 'average carrier' either.
Thus I prefer my S&W 640 with buffalo bore standard pressure 158gr. LSWHP at 850 fps or so. Shot for shot well ahead of any .380 load.
And yes, I practice quite a bit. Even a spare 640, in 640-1 configuration, as a practice gun.
Does not matter if I limp wrist the gun, shoot from inside a pocket, shoot upside down, use weak ammo, +p ammo, blunt bullets, cookie cutter bullets, etc. Plus one can cycle the cylinder to check for high primers or defective rounds BEFORE one has to use the weapon.
And the gun, using a iwb holster and appendix carry, is used daily.
Deaf
Deaf Smith
Member
If that's your worry then I suggest you should get a bigger gun than a .380.
Now in winter I do carry a Glock 26, but summer the Centinnial reigns supreme.
Deaf
Revolver Ocelot
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,470
Saw a video recently where a guy was discussing why he opted for fmj in his 380 over jhp, it basically came down to he had to many under penetration issues (in calibrated fbi spec gel) with the jhp and had concerns of not hitting vitals in an attacker due to the low penetration (7.5" in bare gel with hornady ftx).
These are problems I have never had with 38 spl, so that's where I'll cast my vote.
These are problems I have never had with 38 spl, so that's where I'll cast my vote.
Barry the Bear
Member
I'd prefer a .38 not because of ballistics but a lot more of them revolvers sure are purdier than any auto!
I agree with oneounceload.
For me, I do better shooting my Walther PPK than my S&W 642.
From my reloading records, for 380 ACP, I get 830-900 fps with 90-95 grain FMJ bullets from my Colt Mustang or Sig P238. A bit faster with my Beretta M84 or Walther PPK.
From my S&W 642 (38 Special) with 125 grain bullets, I get 840-870 fps.
So, the 38 Special is a bit more effective than the 380 ACP due to nominally similar velocities and a 20% heavier bullet.
But again, a hit with a 22 LR trumps a miss with a 44 magnum any day.
(Note, velocities stated are what I get with my reloads and my firearms, other ammunition probably will have different results.)
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
All other things aside, probably the .380, though I don't own one and don't expect to.
The thing is, I shoot a fair bit and almost always that's in some form of dynamic, "practical" range situation under mild imposed stress and time pressure.
5 rounds are gone in a heartbeat. I have no expectation, nor training, or even a hope that under real stress (i.e. threat of death) I'll fire slowly and deliberately to make a handful of rounds stretch to meet all potential threats. At the VERY least, I've trained for my whole shooting life to fire in controlled pairs or triples, and to fire for effect. That is to say, fire until I get the hits I wanted and/or the threat falls. So a 5-shot gun has enough capacity for a maximum of 2.5 target engagements, and quite possibly fewer, considering how everyone's accuracy degrades under stress.
I dread that lull in the firing that means I'm out of ammo, and I'll choose to put that off longer if I can. That doesn't mean I have to have 20 rounds in the gun, but 5?
Five rounds is, in my thinking, a very last ditch backup plan. The ultimate "last chance" gun.
The thing is, I shoot a fair bit and almost always that's in some form of dynamic, "practical" range situation under mild imposed stress and time pressure.
5 rounds are gone in a heartbeat. I have no expectation, nor training, or even a hope that under real stress (i.e. threat of death) I'll fire slowly and deliberately to make a handful of rounds stretch to meet all potential threats. At the VERY least, I've trained for my whole shooting life to fire in controlled pairs or triples, and to fire for effect. That is to say, fire until I get the hits I wanted and/or the threat falls. So a 5-shot gun has enough capacity for a maximum of 2.5 target engagements, and quite possibly fewer, considering how everyone's accuracy degrades under stress.
I dread that lull in the firing that means I'm out of ammo, and I'll choose to put that off longer if I can. That doesn't mean I have to have 20 rounds in the gun, but 5?
Five rounds is, in my thinking, a very last ditch backup plan. The ultimate "last chance" gun.
oneounceload
member
And most never fire their gun until qualification time.
BSA1
member
I must take issue with the O.P.s comment "reliability aside". Reliability is big reason to pick a 5 shot revolver over the .380 semi-auto.
I also share the same concerns about the penetration of .380 JHP's meeting the FBI standard of 12" - 18" through four layers of demin into calibrated ballistic gel.
In addition there are much wider selection of ammunition for practice and especially for self-defense.
I also share the same concerns about the penetration of .380 JHP's meeting the FBI standard of 12" - 18" through four layers of demin into calibrated ballistic gel.
In addition there are much wider selection of ammunition for practice and especially for self-defense.
Last edited:
Furncliff
Member
Lots of .380 ballistic tests on you tube, a sample...
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=.380%20ballistic%20test%20you%20tube
The new ammo seems to work just fine.
There are more than 25 major manufacturers of .380 and more than a dozen reman outfits like Freedom Munitions.
Carry the one that you are most accurate with.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=.380%20ballistic%20test%20you%20tube
The new ammo seems to work just fine.
There are more than 25 major manufacturers of .380 and more than a dozen reman outfits like Freedom Munitions.
Carry the one that you are most accurate with.
Last edited:
If you have to ask; then go with a 9 round .380 if you have one that is reliable.
SWG
Member
As the old saying goes "5 for sure!"
oneounceload
member
And how often do most LEOs? 1 hit with 48 shots in NYC doesn't sound like great skill to me.
Gun Master
Member
Try post # 11 for starters.
tomrkba
Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 2,370
I think the Bersa Thunder is too large for a 380 Auto. I would much rather have a Ruger LCP, SIG P238, S&W, etc. Little cartridge...great concealing small gun. You may as well go with 9mm for a gun the size of the Bersa.
38 Special and 380 Auto are vastly different. The bullet weights difference is large. While you do lose velocity in the snubby, you use hotter loads. 380 Auto is much more limited and you need to make sure you get 12" of penetration in ballistic gelatin. JHP can be very problematic in this regard. The common solution is to use FMJ ammo, though LeHigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators seem to have improved on FMJ.
"Five for sure" is not a great statement. Five is not enough, especially in a world of multiple assailants who don't want to be hit. It is merely a compromise for the purposes of carrying a small revolver. It may carry the day, but you can easily get 6+1 capacity in a small 9mm pistol AND get better performance. A Glock 26 gets you 10+1, 12+1, 15+1 or 17+1 while having the same form factor (length, height) at the expense of consistent thickness along all dimensions.
Sam said it, though 6+1 has the same problem.
38 Special and 380 Auto are vastly different. The bullet weights difference is large. While you do lose velocity in the snubby, you use hotter loads. 380 Auto is much more limited and you need to make sure you get 12" of penetration in ballistic gelatin. JHP can be very problematic in this regard. The common solution is to use FMJ ammo, though LeHigh Defense Xtreme Penetrators seem to have improved on FMJ.
"Five for sure" is not a great statement. Five is not enough, especially in a world of multiple assailants who don't want to be hit. It is merely a compromise for the purposes of carrying a small revolver. It may carry the day, but you can easily get 6+1 capacity in a small 9mm pistol AND get better performance. A Glock 26 gets you 10+1, 12+1, 15+1 or 17+1 while having the same form factor (length, height) at the expense of consistent thickness along all dimensions.
Sam said it, though 6+1 has the same problem.
Last edited:
HB
Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 2,376
I went with the 38. An lcp is way easier to carry (had a p32) but I trust the 158gr bullet way more. I've shot enough animals with bows and guns to see bullet weight makes a huge difference in bone breaking/penetrating power.
That being said I've shot a squirrel with a 38 out of 7 1/2 Blackhawk and was less than impressed. Rabbits go down much easier.
I also own a sp101 and like 357s
That being said I've shot a squirrel with a 38 out of 7 1/2 Blackhawk and was less than impressed. Rabbits go down much easier.
I also own a sp101 and like 357s
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Well I bought the Bersa because I've heard they recoil less than similar sized 9mm handguns. I was thinking faster follow up shots. I've seen some gel tests and there are some .380 ACP loads thag do expand reliably and still penetrate over 12" in denim covered gel, though the expansion isn't as much as a 9 mil round.
Deaf Smith
Member
But again, I ain't 'most'. And the poll was over what WE preferred, not 'most'.
As for police, people should keep in mind the 'stats' that police hit only 25 or 30 or whatever percent are skewed. A few cops shoot 100+ in an engagement and hit only a few times, if at all (you do remember the NYPD had several such incidences as well as Dallas PD), and those high round count, very poor hit count skews the totals.
I've been watching the Dallas PD over the last few years and usually they don't shoot many rounds and the hit often.
Deaf
- Status
