jerkface11
Member
The only unfair part is that you are legally required to have a middle man.
Why brick and morter are dying
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, that's certainly true! Though, a bit of a "bigger fish to fry."
oneounceload
member
Not unfiar - get your own FFL then.
Just wait until the current or next admin. puts a stop to internet sales of anything "gun-related". Once you've driven your local guy out of business, then what?
IME the LGS is a good place to have the counter guy tell you he could take that rifle off the rack and shoot a soda can off your shoulder at 700 yards...or tell somebody that handgun rounds with higher grains are more powerful (like 158gr .357 vs 125 gr .357 in one example)...that if you shoot someone on your doorstep you better drag them inside...that Glocks aren't reliable because they have a plastic guiderod...that steel case ammo is bad for an AR 'because of the star chamber" and I could go on and on and on.
Don't go to most gyms for advice on form. Don't go to most LGS' for gun advice. That's what the world wide web is for.
Oh, it's also for buying quality merchandise at good prices.
Now, I got my last gun from an LGS. They had a competitive price and I didn't ask any questions and certainly didn't seek any advice lol
NO!
Except for a few local exceptions (and NFA items) there is no registration of firearms
+ 100
That law badly needs to be fixed, amended, scrapped, something. Or a truly pro-gun President could just order the ATF to declare all Title I firearms to be curios. That law is seriously anti free commerce. Don't even get me started on the import restrictions (https://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/category.jsp?catid=80524 :banghead
.I haven't bought through a storefront since mid 2010. Got into collecting around then and have been buying WWII and Cold War stuff from LGSs all over the country. People forget that all the Internet really does is eliminate distance as a concern, just like the mail order catalogs that came before it, as mentioned by another poster. Those goods still have to come from somewhere. I've bought used books from mom&pops located all over America while I was downrange thanks to Amazon. I only wish they'd fix the stupidity of the GCA and Amazon would sell guns too.
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P5 Guy
Member
Some of us cannot get an FFL just a CCR. I can't get a FFL because I have to have a store front or an address zoned for retail activity.
Under President Clinton, the BATF has taken it upon itself to become the national enforcer of local zoning laws, state sales tax laws and state and local licensing laws. This is flatly unconstitutional. The federal government has no Constitutional authority to enforce local ordinances. (new laNGUAGE HERE)In fact Article 1, Section 8 prohibits the federal government from usurping powers that belong to the states.
One thing the BATF is doing is to persecute the FFL holder who has not obtained a retail store and other licenses. Consider a letter I received from the City of Melvindale, Michigan:
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is attempting to limit the number of Federally-licensed firearms dealers. One way in which they are attempting to limit the number of licensees is in that all future renewals will be sent to the local municipality for Zoning Approval.
https://www.gunowners.org/op9509.htm
Small ma and pa shops are going to eventually disappear, regardless of what anyone wishes. Once people get a taste of the low prices and vast choices from internet suppliers such as Brownells and more specific retailers such as 44Mag or Top Gun Supply, they quit wasting their time and gas running around to the LGS that will only function as an FFL for anything with a serial number.
LGS counter person knowledge? I can get several dozen real world reviews about a gun or scope or accessory on a forum vs one guy's subjective opinion that likely never even used it. It sucks, but that's how the internet is changing business.
You may still see small boutique gun shops that cater to a specific buyer, such as http://www.puglisigunemporium.com/ in Duluth, MN that sells fine double guns, many of which retail for 10's of thousands of $$$.
LGS counter person knowledge? I can get several dozen real world reviews about a gun or scope or accessory on a forum vs one guy's subjective opinion that likely never even used it. It sucks, but that's how the internet is changing business.
You may still see small boutique gun shops that cater to a specific buyer, such as http://www.puglisigunemporium.com/ in Duluth, MN that sells fine double guns, many of which retail for 10's of thousands of $$$.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
I think a lot of you guys go to the wrong gun store. I have at least a half dozen independent gun stores within 10 miles. Some of them have the loudmouth AR and AK buffoons staffing them, some have folks who know what they have but will not offer further advice and one has a real gunsmith who knows his stuff. I do most of my business with the little guy who knows his stuff, I buy some ammo and cruise for older guns in the second group but rarely if ever go to the toy soldier shops. Maybe you need to broaden your scope....
Yep. Shotgun News and Sportsman's Guide have been around a long time. When mail order sales of ammo were made legal with the FOPA of 1986, having all that ammo shipped to your door (especially cases of 22, that were always a gray area under the 68 GCA) was sweet. Ammo prices just crashed for a decade and did not start to recover until recently.
I obtained a FFL when living in Virginia in the early eighties. I was not aware that VA had a local ordinance that required you to have your neighbor’s written consent when selling firearms out of your home. This restriction did not apply to other businesses. Unfortunately this constraint prevented me from selling guns.
I like Davidson’s (Gallery of Guns) model. They have a fairly decent local inventory and many of the gun dealers compete in selling their guns. You choose the dealer, pay a deposit to Davidson’s, and then pick up the gun at the dealer (usually the same day) and pay the remainder. However, you do have to pay your state sale’s tax.
I have built up a good rapport with a few of the dealers and they also will accept internet purchases and only charge a $15 transfer fee if you have a CWP. Firearms inventory is a huge overhead so many of the dealers are happy to use either method.
I like Davidson’s (Gallery of Guns) model. They have a fairly decent local inventory and many of the gun dealers compete in selling their guns. You choose the dealer, pay a deposit to Davidson’s, and then pick up the gun at the dealer (usually the same day) and pay the remainder. However, you do have to pay your state sale’s tax.
I have built up a good rapport with a few of the dealers and they also will accept internet purchases and only charge a $15 transfer fee if you have a CWP. Firearms inventory is a huge overhead so many of the dealers are happy to use either method.
Jim Watson
Member
Really? What do you think the forms you fill out at the gun store are? And the dealer's "bound book" listing all his acquisitions and disposals?
You may say there is no national CENTRAL registration... if you believe that the "background check" record is deleted as it is supposed to be (which I am very suspicious of) but that is just a matter of time.
There is no national/federal registration of firearms, and the vast majority of states do not register firearms.
Going to an FFL for a transfer does NOT mean the gun is "registered to you".
Even if you go full tinfoil hat and point to the 4473 that is kept for 20 years minimum (or whatever it is), and even if you pretended that somebody could go to every one of the tends of thousands of FFL's and pick up or copy or scan alllllll of their 4473's, that STILL wouldn't "register" guns to you because there's no telling who you lawfully transferred that gun to at a later time (in the vast majority of states particularly where face to face transfers are lawful).
Additionally, the information phoned in for the background check does not include serial number so there's nothing to "delete" there to prevent that from being a registry.
ADDITIONALLY, on top of that, several (or more?) states do not require a background check be called in if you have a carry license. GA is one of them, when I get a gun at an FFL now there is no phone call because I show my driver license and my weapon carry license.
So, please, stop spreading that bull junk mis information about how guns are registered. Doing that is evil, doing that supports gun control, because doing that just makes people believe it, and when people believe it they very easily are convinced to vote YES to actual registration when it is suggested.
Shanghai McCoy
Member
The last time I bought a rifle the 4473 was on a computer screen and I filled it out and submitted it via that computer. I'm sure it was all "secure", eh...? 
The last time I bought a rifle the 4473 was on a computer screen and I filled it out and submitted it via that computer. I'm sure it was all "secure", eh...?
I'm going to assume you are responding to the posts immediately above yours.
Was it a modified 4473 where you included make model and serial number of the gun you were buying? In a state where all transfers of that type firearm have to go through an FFL? If not then this statement seems wholly irrelevant to the whole registration thing.
Steel Horse Rider
Member
The problem of arguing that there is no "registration" of ownership through the 4473 form is the tracing of firearms used in a crime back to where they were purchased or to a previous owner. Yes, there are holes in the path if the weapon has been passed by theft or face to face sale but there is still a traceable path of that firearm. That may not technically be "registration" but it performs an identical function. Maybe you should keep your tinfoil in your pocket just in case reality breaks out......
No, it is not registration.
No, it does not perform an identical function, because one may own firearms with no corresponding 4473, and one may have firearms for which they are on a 4473 but they have not owned for a long time. For most enthusiasts, or whatever term you want to use, there will be plenty of examples of both.
Buying a gun at an FFL does not register it to you
You write your information down on a paper and give it up you might as well have registered yourself as a gun owner.
It's not tin foil hat it's just stupid simple lowlife common sense.
I am not reassured and most people are not foolish enough to be.
It's not tin foil hat it's just stupid simple lowlife common sense.
I am not reassured and most people are not foolish enough to be.
Well, for starters, there is an *extremely significant* difference between claiming that you are registering the gun(s) you buy to you...and claiming that you are registering yourself as a gun owner.
Common sense? How the heck does "common sense" dictate that showing you are a gun owner somehow registered the gun(s) you just bought to your name?
What?
There is no national firearms registration. Period.
I think you're correct - or at least I'm lucky enough to have two stores close to me that are excellent.
I kinda think of the LGS and the 'Net as two different animals.
We have a no haggle, low cost store in town - he just hangs a low price on 'em as he learned long ago he wasted too much time (and time IS money) haggling with folks over the price. If it wasn't for his policy / pricing, I'd probably own many fewer guns than I do.
A few years back, someone brought in a Marlin lever action rifle they bought at Walmart - the dealer showed him around 10 things where they had "cheaped out" to meet Walmart's price demands, and the dealer had the identical gun in the rack (sans cheap / left out parts) for less than they guy paid at Walmart.
I'm sure this guy's picture is now in the dictionary as a description of "buyer's remorse".
We had another shop opened recently by a competent enthusiast - he caters more to the SD crowd, knows his stuff, and deals in Class III items.
Sure they're not big box types of outfits, but both stores have a small, extremely knowledgeable staff, and sell about any daily supplies you'll need (targets, etc.).
I don't have to give up my name and what I purchased to buy common stuff in the store. I can just pay cash and get a reciept all of which is none the government's business.
All the double talk boo beee goo gaash is not going the change the fact that the government is sticking it's nose into business that is not theirs.
Their is no way that I am going to swallow anyones koolaid about how the government is going to use the utmost discrection with their powers and not keep records of what ever they can get their hands on.
Telling people otherwise is just not truthful.
All the double talk boo beee goo gaash is not going the change the fact that the government is sticking it's nose into business that is not theirs.
Their is no way that I am going to swallow anyones koolaid about how the government is going to use the utmost discrection with their powers and not keep records of what ever they can get their hands on.
Telling people otherwise is just not truthful.
oneounceload
member
Interesting since the Walmarts here in the South get their guns shipped from Ellett Bros - a HUGE wholesaler that distributes guns to LOTS of dealers. Be interesting to see the actual model and barcode on each box
Nobody said or implied that buying a gun at an FFL wasthe same process as a loaf of bread at the store or a power drill at Home Depot.
But there is no firearm registration/registry.
Jim Watson
Member
The two oldest locals in town closed this year but there are a couple of recent starts in town and more nearby, plus a Gander.
The biggest local in this end of the state has added a second store.
Don't give up on the store fronts just yet.
The biggest local in this end of the state has added a second store.
Don't give up on the store fronts just yet.
buck460XVR
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Around here small LGSs are doing well. Even been a few new ones start up and the older ones expanding their stock. Took awhile for them to realize in order to compete they had to be close to online prices, but also found that customer service and no shipping costs mean much to potential customers. Most of us are willing to pay the same or a little more to have something we can look at first and we can take home with us the same day. Most of the LGSs around me charge a buck or two more per pound for powder than online sources, but because of no Hazmat fees and shipping, it's actually cheaper. Same goes for primers. There has always been a percentage of small businesses that fail every year, regardless of economic and political climates. Some fail because their customer base changes, they are just bad business managers, or they are looking to retire anyway. FME, if one of the local stores I frequent doesn't have something, they will have in in about the same time as I can order it online and wait for UPS to deliver it, and at about the same price. I'm sure not everyone is as fortunate as I am tho.
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