Employer gun free zones

I used to work at a place that allowed me to carry, now I work at a place that want, but I make about 4-5 times as much.

I guess the ability to buy them is more important to me than the ability to carry them at work.

I keep my pistol locked up in my car, because we have a no weapons policy.

However, I keep a 3.5" folder clipped to my pocket, and a Folts minimalist around my neck.

Several times I've walked into the shop a little pocket heavy. I go back and secure it in my car as soon as I can.

I'm a mechanic, so I've got all sorts of improvised weapons at arms reach. Still, I've considered getting a lock box for inside my tool box and stashing a pistol inside, just in case.

Just before the Labor Day weekend, we had an employee throw a fit and threatened to shoot several other employees. He was walked out of the building, but since no one called the cops, once he was off company property, he was free to do what he pleased. Including lie in wait for the people he threatened. Thankfully nothing happened.

So is it worth the risk? To me, it is. A lot of our entry level positions are filled by a temp service, and a lot of them are unskilled labor and have criminal records. The person above was a young minority, and covered with gang related tattoos. This isn't the first time we've had an incident like this, either.

Herrwalther, I'm on the same page as you. My life, and those around me mean more to me than my job. I know this is a very hot topic, but I've always looked at it as, I was looking for a job when, I found this one.

Now if it was something of a legal issue, Federal building or other gov. type job, the risk of getting caught definitely would not be worth taking. That said, I'm a law abiding individual, and I also consider myself a person of high integrity. But if a company policy puts me at heightened risk of personal injury or death, I'm gonna look for a way stay safe, company policy or not.

That having been established, I have been caught carrying at work, and more than once. But in every circumstance my employer understood, thus I have never been terminated or even written up for that matter. I've often kept a weapon in the safe in just about every store I've managed since about 1978. The only exception to this, was when I was living in San Diego, Ca.. This was one of those situations in which the risk of getting caught simply wasn't worth the legal consequences. Heck, a person would pretty much have to have been mortally wounded to justify using lethal force in that state, and even then, things can get pretty bad for the victim. The money was pretty good, but I only able to tolerate 2 years of the state gun restrictions, so I moved back to Arizona, that was in fact my sole reason for moving back.

So if you're willing to risk your job, and you wouldn't be violating any laws, I say do what you feel is necessary to stay safe.

GS

jmace57 said:

The only place I DON'T carry is work...because of company policy. If you are an employee, no carry. A visitor, OK. (sigh)

If you're willing to lose your job over it, go ahead and carry.

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Same with me. Technically it violates company policy to have one in one's vehicle in the parking lot, but that policy violates State Law.

The company policy is also unclear on CCW while patronizing the stores while not working.

I'm a professional forester and certified silivulturist. I am alone in the woods, off trail, in the middle of nowhere, for 20-40 hours a week and the rest of my work week is in my office.

Carrying would be a very good idea. But, I work for the government, so can't carry at work at all. If I did, and got caught, my career would be over forever. And considering the speciality of my education, finding gainful employment would be very difficult. So, I don't carry, and take the risk that I won't have a gun when I need it. Several instances have come up where a gun would have been useful. Mostly aggressive animals.

I could also be subject to criminal prosecution if I transported a firearm in a government vehicle or brought one into a government building. No thanks.

Not being able to carry at work and doing what I do have made me a pretty attentive and situationally aware person.

My company forbids weapons of any kind on company property, and that includes your private vehicle if it's in the parking lot. The company has facilities in most U.S. states and I've never heard of an incidence where somebody needed a pistol to protect themselves. My worry isn't at work, but to and from. I agree with one of the previous posters. If I felt the need for a firearm at work, I'd stay home or find another job. On workdays my pistol stays at home.

I don't know what sort of job it is, but one where you have to cut open a lot of boxes doesn't sound like it pays a lot.

I never carry at work, its just not worth losing my current job over, or having the black mark against me when I try to find a new one. People will say well they'll never know unless you really do find your self in a life or death situation. I would argue that you are far more likely to accidentally be discovered than ever finding yourself in such a situation. Leave the gun at home, even if you live in a state where there would be no legal consequences.

Get a small pocket gun and bring it along. Almost every company has a weapons policy on paper but the only way someone's going to know is if you need it, in which case your life is more important than any job.

Plus where they have already violated their own policy saying you CAN bring knives where the policy states you can't, there's a precedent to discuss with them if it needed to be discussed.

And if you got like a little NAA pug or something, if somehow they found out I would think it would be pretty easy to say, 'i just forgot it was still in my pocket from the other night, sorry' and play it off like it was a one time deal. In any case, my vote is to carry but its your job VS your safety that you have to weigh.

When you buck the system.............or put another way. For every action there is a re-action. In your case ,consequences. If you get caught of course.

On a more general note:

I once took a survey job that had me outside on public roads for most of my day. I carefully scrutinized all the company literature they gave me upon hire, including their employee manual. There was nothing in it regarding weapons, and carrying would have been 100% legal as far as the law was concerned.

During our first organizational meeting, one of the other new hires asked about the weapons policy, forcing one of our supervisors to weigh in on it (with predicable results). I thought, "dude, what the heck did you open your mouth for?"

:banghead:

If the company doesn't specify in writing what the policy is, don't force them to make one. Sweet baby Xenu. No comment on what I subsequently did on the job.

Get a small pocket gun and bring it along. Almost every company has a weapons policy on paper but the only way someone's going to know is if you need it, in which case your life is more important than any job.

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Amazing how folks folks want to break the rules when it suits them..........

Simply put - you work FOR them; they sign your check; which means they get to say what goes. If the inability to carry at work is so alarming to you, you have several choices - the first of which is do not go to work there, the second would be to start your own business where you can dictate the rules.

I worked for a utility that received suspicious envelopes with white powder on 9/11. There was some panic, but no one at any time felt the need to go and grab a gun.

The paranoia over woulda/coulda/shoulda is running rampant lately it seems

Get a small pocket gun and bring it along. Almost every company has a weapons policy on paper but the only way someone's going to know is if you need it, in which case your life is more important than any job

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In my case if you get hurt past needing a bandaid or getting a wasp sting you'd get busted in the search for drugs.

Amazing how folks folks want to break the rules when it suits them..........

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For my entire life I've known multiple people who were very firm believers in "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6" they carry everyday, everywhere, if policy or even law prohibits them they'll carry regardless.
While I personally don't ascribe to that policy, nor do I promote it, I DO understand where they're coming from and will not condemn them for it.

I'm pretty sure if I hung an AR-15 on the wall of my office my boss, the executive VP, would come in and tell me to put that thing away before someone else sees it. Then he'd bring a 6 pack over to my house at night and want me to put the LPK in his new lower.

What do our in house lawyers say about this?

I would be concerned with a conviction of a charge that might cost me my CHL.

If an employer said no guns, I did not have a gun.

Only one place that I worked at that needed guns on site, had a no guns policy. That employer screwed so many employees, he feared for his life. He had a gun pulled on him after shorting one guy's pay more than once. It was always a struggle to get commission money from that company. I quit and walked out one day, giving no notice after getting a commission check that was about 50% short. He told me he called the police, and the security company that had foot patrol in the area, (unarmed). I told him that I was not a criminal, and he need not worry about me doing anything illegal. I got my money in small claims court. The judge was not happy that it was not the first time that year that he had seen my former employer in court.

Any other place that I thought a gun was needed, the employer had provided revolvers stashed at key areas.

Amazing how folks folks want to break the rules when it suits them..........

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Authority is made to be questioned. Understand the risks, understand yourself and your reasons, and make your choice.

I promise you, there are "rules" you break when it suits you. To claim otherwise would be either ignorance or willful disingenuousness.

Simply put - you work FOR them; they sign your check; which means they get to say what goes. If the inability to carry at work is so alarming to you, you have several choices - the first of which is do not go to work there, the second would be to start your own business where you can dictate the rules.

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And the third would be to carry and don't say anything and accept whatever befalls you if that day ever comes.

That's a choice, and it can be a rational one. You can't claim that because it offends your peculiar sense of morality, it isn't a legitimate choice for someone else.

I worked for a utility that received suspicious envelopes with white powder on 9/11. There was some panic, but no one at any time felt the need to go and grab a gun.

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Ok. That's baldly pointless and irrelevant, but nice story, bro'!

("Hey, I once had indigestion and didn't at the time feel the need to go grab a gun..."")
("Hey, I once had a flat tire and didn't at the time feel the need to go grab a gun..."")
("Hey, I once sat and contemplated the juxtaposition of surrealism and post-colonial dietary trends among the native populations of Micronesia and didn't at the time feel the need to go grab a gun..."")

The paranoia over woulda/coulda/shoulda is running rampant lately it seems

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Anyone who'd come to THR and suggest that a person wanting to carry a firearm, wherever, whenever, for their own protection is "paranoia" simply doesn't understand our raison d'etre, nor the principles we champion.

This relates back to the question that was asked a while ago, as to when you should draw.

My answer to that, and my answer to this, is; if you feel that the risk of loss of an innocent person's life supercedes the risk of the loss of your own imprisonment (or termination, in this case), then that is when an armed response is justifiable.

A few years ago, I worked at a place where firearms were prohibited by corporate policy. However, after a restaurant down the street suffered an armed robbery, our store adopted an unofficial "don't ask, don't tell" policy to employee carry...at least until a new employee had a personal beef with a senior one, and threatened to report the senior man to corporate in an attempt to get him fired.

My current job has an official no firearms policy too. I technically comply, but I daresay in the event of a life-threatening event, I will be in a position to respond long before law enforcement can.

oneounceload said:

Amazing how folks folks want to break the rules when it suits them..........

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Sam1911 said:

Authority is made to be questioned. Understand the risks, understand yourself and your reasons, and make your choice.

I promise you, there are "rules" you break when it suits you. To claim otherwise would be either ignorance or willful disingenuousness.


And the third would be to carry and don't say anything and accept whatever befalls you if that day ever comes.

That's a choice, and it can be a rational one. You can't claim that because it offends your peculiar sense of morality, it isn't a legitimate choice for someone else.

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It too has always amazed me at the number of times here on the "High Road", folks suggest or condone breaking the rules or the law. Especially in the Hunting forum......all because it suits them too. There always is some kind of validating reasoning, generally superficial and selfish. A rational choice, to tell someone straight faced you will not bring a gun on the premises while in the back of your mind you are trying to figure out how to get away with it? If your moral convictions are that strong and in your mind, your safety is more important than the job, why take the job in the first place. Folks that compromise rules don't only do it once, they generally make a habit of it. They are generally the ones that tend to steal from their employer, not just with material items, but extending breaks and wasting time instead of working. To say those folks are high on the list of wanted employees because of their integrity is a joke. If they had that much integrity, they would have said no when the job was offered. It's because they are a liar that they say yes in the first place. To suggest to someone else to take the chance of getting caught and losing their livelihood speaks volumes for those that suggest it. Ain't like it's their job that at stake.

If the OP wants to carry on the job after he has assured his employer he wouldn't, it's his choice, but don't treat us like idiots and act like he's a hero. Don't belittle those folks whose word and integrity actually means something, by giving excuses why it's perfectly fine to disregard the rules when they don't suit you.

..Folks that compromise rules don't only do it once, they generally make a habit of it. They are generally the ones that tend to steal from their employer, not just with material items, but extending breaks and wasting time instead of working.

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I believe he was trying to say that we all break some rules we don't agree with or find fault with in our everyday life. We all speed, have rolling stops, change lanes with no blinker, etc. Those are rules you agree to when you apply for your license but blow off because you don't like them. Yes, some rules are more "important" than others but the way you make it sound, a rule is a rule and if you are a rule breaker then the chances are that you are a thief or a low-life of some kind is painting with a brush so broad that you couldn't lift it.

There are rules and there are laws. We all push the envelope on those we choose to ignore. We (individuals) have to weigh the risk/reward when we CHOOSE to break a rule or law. Some people have a higher bar than others (felons versus speeders) but not every rule breaker is a bad person. I think you took this a step too far.

Why did you even ask Security about the knife? HR or your manager or somebody like that already told you it was fine.

JERRY said:

I don't know what sort of job it is, but one where you have to cut open a lot of boxes doesn't sound like it pays a lot.

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At my last job I opened around a dozen boxes a day.....and I was making $70k/yr.....

Of course when I wasn't opening boxes I was doing R&D for advanced electronics...

buck460XVR said:

Why did you accept the job if you do not wish to follow their rules/policies? Whatever happened to integrity and honesty? Get caught and get fired and you will have a negative reference to work against looking for a new job. Now if it's just flippin' burgers at MickeyDs.....go for it.

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Right, right. As long as you're JUST flipping burgers, integrity doesn't matter. Please say this post is a joke, because it's literally the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Man. Whatever happened to integrity, I wouldn't expect you to figure it out.

OP, if you feel like you gotta carry, and you're prepared and willing to deal with the consequences, then carry. A job isn't a want. We're not talking about breaking the law during a vacation. Just because you've been unemployed two years in a row doesn't mean you don't NEED the job now. Heck, it's all the more reason to believe you DO need it. Now, if you can afford to wait and take a job elsewhere, I'd say you should abide by their policy and look for work elsewhere. But if you've gotta provide for your family now, then you shouldn't have to sacrifice your safety to do it.

oneounceload said:

... So, you just get hired and are already wanting to violate the company policies you just agreed to?...

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That mirrors my thoughts on the subject (I only read the first 3-4 responses).

And after 2 years out of work ...

That said, I hope that all goes very well with your new job!