armoredman
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Is it still functional? Did they say if the "barrel shroud" is factory, and what it does? Interesting, and now probably VERY valuable. The NRA will want that for the museum.
¿Pump-action raygun pistol?
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CLP
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that a belt clip on the left grip? if so, why would a gallery gun have a belt clip? maybe made for an amputee and it attaches to a prosthesis?
and as previously stated, definitely steampunkish
and as previously stated, definitely steampunkish
Whatever it is it's old and very neat.
High Standard 45 you say?
Buck Rodgers would be proud to carry that.
High Standard 45 you say?
Buck Rodgers would be proud to carry that.
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WestKentucky
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When is the auction? I just want to watch it and see this odd bit of awesomeness on the block.
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ImperatorGray
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Turns out the auction was on Labor Day. My buddy was able to attend, and sent me some additional pics from the day of, along with some notes:
1. The tag is supposed to be its museum tag, from when it was in "the High Standard museum." (My googling has not turned up any such museum, past or present, for whatever that's worth. Anybody got info?)
2. It is rifled all the way to the end of the cooling fins.
3. The magazine holds 100 rounds of .45 ACP, which is why the cooling fins were included. They were, apparently, not a later addition. The "clip" on the side of the magazine is the crank to compress the spring for loading - the auctioneer pulled it out to demonstrate, and it was stiff enough he had to borrow a Leatherman and use the pliers to pop it loose.
4. It has no markings whatsoever anywhere on it, and was apparently designed by a single engineer. The auctioneer didn't know the engineer's name and said he thought it had probably been made in the forties; museum paperwork was on its way from somewhere in Illinois that he said might shed light on both.
5. It failed to sell for $7,500 because of a reserve placed on it by the seller.
1. The tag is supposed to be its museum tag, from when it was in "the High Standard museum." (My googling has not turned up any such museum, past or present, for whatever that's worth. Anybody got info?)
2. It is rifled all the way to the end of the cooling fins.
3. The magazine holds 100 rounds of .45 ACP, which is why the cooling fins were included. They were, apparently, not a later addition. The "clip" on the side of the magazine is the crank to compress the spring for loading - the auctioneer pulled it out to demonstrate, and it was stiff enough he had to borrow a Leatherman and use the pliers to pop it loose.
4. It has no markings whatsoever anywhere on it, and was apparently designed by a single engineer. The auctioneer didn't know the engineer's name and said he thought it had probably been made in the forties; museum paperwork was on its way from somewhere in Illinois that he said might shed light on both.
5. It failed to sell for $7,500 because of a reserve placed on it by the seller.
entropy
Member
Looks like a Steampunk prop of a prop gun off of Firefly.
"I wonder if the military's search for a carbine entered their mind?"
If it did, I am glad it went out. I am having trouble visualizing troops actually armed with such a thing. And a pump action at that!
I still think it is the product of a clever but not very realistic individual determined to show that his pet idea would work. Since pump guns have been made for many years, I think the pet idea was probably the built in magazine, which could be applied to any kind of action.
Jim
If it did, I am glad it went out. I am having trouble visualizing troops actually armed with such a thing. And a pump action at that!
I still think it is the product of a clever but not very realistic individual determined to show that his pet idea would work. Since pump guns have been made for many years, I think the pet idea was probably the built in magazine, which could be applied to any kind of action.
Jim
rcmodel
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I'm still having a hard time envisioning how you are suppose to shoot it.
Obviously way to heavy to fire one-handed like a pistol.
But the severe drop in the 'stock / magazine' would preclude shooting it from the shoulder?
Plus, another thing with 100 rounds of .45 ACP in the butt.
It would weigh 15 pounds, in all the wrong places.
The other thing I have been thinking?
Had it not been a High Standard prototype?
But rather a Colt, S&W, Winchester, or early John Browning prototype?
Collectors would have been fighting over it before the auction started.
And it would have sold for $100 - $250 grand easy!
rc
Obviously way to heavy to fire one-handed like a pistol.
But the severe drop in the 'stock / magazine' would preclude shooting it from the shoulder?
Plus, another thing with 100 rounds of .45 ACP in the butt.
It would weigh 15 pounds, in all the wrong places.
The other thing I have been thinking?
Had it not been a High Standard prototype?
But rather a Colt, S&W, Winchester, or early John Browning prototype?
Collectors would have been fighting over it before the auction started.
And it would have sold for $100 - $250 grand easy!
rc
jerkface11
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Is it really pump action though? Or is it a semi auto that you cock with the pump?
jerkface11
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That thing could be a machinegun.
rcmodel
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If anyone would just look at it and explain to me how a normal human could shoot it one shot at a time, let alone a machinegun??
I'd like to hear it.
rc
I'd like to hear it.
rc
jerkface11
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I'm thinking you lock the stock or whatever that is between your elbow and your hip.
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ImperatorGray
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As far as controllability during firing, you've got me. Seems like that enormous magazine, even when empty, would act as a pendulum-like "counterweight" that, rather than countering recoil would exponentially increase muzzle flip. Imagine what it would be like with 100 rounds of .45 ACP!
Trapping the mag between elbow and hip seems implausible, or at very least awkward, as the drum hangs down so low.
As for the semi-auto possibility... I'm intrigued. I know my buddy got to play with the thing during a lull in the auction, but I'm not sure how thorough a look he got. I've emailed him to see if he has any thoughts on the question.
Trapping the mag between elbow and hip seems implausible, or at very least awkward, as the drum hangs down so low.
As for the semi-auto possibility... I'm intrigued. I know my buddy got to play with the thing during a lull in the auction, but I'm not sure how thorough a look he got. I've emailed him to see if he has any thoughts on the question.
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ImperatorGray
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OK, so: The auctioneer kept referring to it as "pump-action." But when my buddy played with it, he got to work the action a few times as he looked it over. Turns out the barrel is integral to a "slide" atop the weapon, which we've highlighted in red here:
So, when you pump the action, the first thing it does is move everything highlighted in red above "maybe half an inch" back. As soon as that happens, the slide stops moving and the bolt unlocks from the rest of the slide. Continuing to work the pump/charging handle opens the bolt, creating an ejection port in the center top of the weapon:
That's the bolt moving back, there. The housing it occupies when open is where I thought I saw the shadow of a spring in the first photos to come out of the auction house. As you can see, it's actually enclosed on top, and my buddy says it's enclosed below, too. So I was wrong on that.
Anyway. All that sound like a setup for short-recoil operation to anybody else?
So, when you pump the action, the first thing it does is move everything highlighted in red above "maybe half an inch" back. As soon as that happens, the slide stops moving and the bolt unlocks from the rest of the slide. Continuing to work the pump/charging handle opens the bolt, creating an ejection port in the center top of the weapon:
That's the bolt moving back, there. The housing it occupies when open is where I thought I saw the shadow of a spring in the first photos to come out of the auction house. As you can see, it's actually enclosed on top, and my buddy says it's enclosed below, too. So I was wrong on that.
Anyway. All that sound like a setup for short-recoil operation to anybody else?
SDC
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Very neat; it would be interesting to see how the magazine works, as well.
jerkface11
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Sounds like it's not a pump action then. Now we need to know if it's full auto. I'm betting it is.
CLP
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This is one of those threads that just sticks in your mind. I'm browsing through TFB today and came across this article of a very similar Steyr.
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ImperatorGray
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Wow. That's similar enough that it makes me wonder if our guy at at High Standard had the patent in front of him when he began work. Good find!
The (linked) Colt patent applied for in April '44 is also interesting to look at.
The (linked) Colt patent applied for in April '44 is also interesting to look at.
Don't let Discovery channel see that or they will build a whole "space aliens" scenario around it !
It isn't obvious from the drawing, but the Kottas magazine seems to use a lever extending up to the slide that reciprocates with the slide and ratchets the bottom drum around, pulling the band around. The top lever in the stock is used to wind the band backward as the gun is loaded from clips.
The thing reminds me of other high capacity fixed magazine guns (e.g., the Evans) where the inventor forgot that being able to fire a lot of rounds was more than offset by the long time required to load the magazine. It was sort of the reverse of the saying about the Spencer - a gun you loaded all week and fired on Sunday.
Jim
It isn't obvious from the drawing, but the Kottas magazine seems to use a lever extending up to the slide that reciprocates with the slide and ratchets the bottom drum around, pulling the band around. The top lever in the stock is used to wind the band backward as the gun is loaded from clips.
The thing reminds me of other high capacity fixed magazine guns (e.g., the Evans) where the inventor forgot that being able to fire a lot of rounds was more than offset by the long time required to load the magazine. It was sort of the reverse of the saying about the Spencer - a gun you loaded all week and fired on Sunday.
Jim
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