Why are shotguns so reviled for big game hunting?

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Jason_W

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It's true that on the whole, rifles are more accurate than shotguns and are better long distance tools, but given the manner in which a lot of people talk, you'd think that a shotgun in the deer woods is only a slight upgrade from a pointy stick.

I even have a coffee table book on the subject of shotgun hunting for deer by a man who has decades of experience doing just that who devotes a good deal of the forward to lamenting the hopeless inferiority of the shotgun.

I don't get it. Even I (who isn't that great a shot by any stretch) used to be able to keep slugs in a deer vital zone sized target at 100 yards using a smooth bore with ghost ring sights. It's not going to win any prizes, but it would mean venison.

Rifles will kill game at longer distances, true, and I wouldn't want a shotgun on a pronghorn hunt in Wyoming, but a lot of the hunting territory in this country is so thickly forested that a 50 yard shot on game is unusually long. Even in thick woods territory people look down on the shotgun. What gives?
 
A person can buy a shotgun with a rifled barrel and scope/red dot for less than $400, and that will include a longer barrel for birds. The shotgun will be good out to 100 yards with the proper sabot slugs.

That said, $400 won't buy a good (good not cheap) rifle scope let alone a nice rifle.

I use a 30-06!
 
A lot of people don't know their butt from their elbow either. A great deal depends on where one is hunting. A pronghorn hunt in Wyoming can be done with a shotgun, just like it can be with a bow. Just isn't by stalking.
No red dots. The dots are usually too big for accurate shooting. A 2 or 3 MOA dot will cover the entire black of a standard sighting in target at 100.
 
Because most deer hunters are gun guys and most gun guys are gear guys. :)

For the guys who live in traditional rifle states I can understand the ignorance and I'm sure some hunters use the advantage of a rifle to overcome hunting skill weakness.

We've used a basic shotgun with foster slugs and killed deer, for me a smooth bore shotgun with a bead is "using enough gun" and that's all that matters to me.
 
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Shotguns have a mixed reputation, not purely a bad one.

Too many shots taken over the decades, using buckshot at too great distances and leaving wounded animals.

Too many shots taken with the old "Pumkin Balls" which were no better than buckshot, and often less accurate.

But then the foster type (and others) slugs really changed things, and stretched the realistic, reasonable hunting distance (can you keep every shot on a medium sized paper plate?) out to 75-100 yards for most well-practiced shooters.

But ANY decent rifle will give you twice that, or well more than twice that, in usable accuracy. And more is better, right? And that's often with less recoil than a slug load produces. So the shotgun is effective, but looks a little shabby in comparison to what you COULD be shooting.

Then the saboted slugs came out to be shot through the new rifled barrels. Well, that's a nifty combination! Some combinations of a good rifled slug gun and a load it likes will stretch your range out to 200 yds!

But, now you're buying at least a special barrel, and very expensive ammo, and you've still got the weight and bulk and low capacity, etc. of a shotgun.

Now if you're the sort of hunter who only has, or only wants, ONE gun for all his/her needs, then a shotgun should almost definitely be it.

But who's like that, these days? Most hunters are whatever the complete opposite of a "minimalist" would be. Maximalist? :) Lots of rifles to choose from, no reason to go with the one gun that does pretty "ok" on lots of different game.

So really, shotguns are as good as they've ever been -- and even better! They just don't rack up the "cool" points like a rifle does, and so they get the second-class reputation.
 
If given the option to choose the best all around weapon for home defense and hunting, my vote always goes to the shotgun for this very reason. While not the best option for hunting, a 12ga with slugs will take down your typical game animals. Is deer hunting with a shotgun better than with a rifle? No. But it is certainly easier than hunting with your normal handgun in a carry caliber.
 
Out here in the west, hunting open country, a typical shot on a buck or an elk might be 300+ yards, pronghorn even further.

I hunt with a 30-06, 165gr. It will drop a deer like a bag of hammers at 400 yards no problem, and is just big enough for elk.

I don't hunt much anymore though. If someone would pay me to hunt, or just pay my bills so I didn't have to work 2 jobs, I would hunt more. :rolleyes:


If I lived back east, and was hunting woods, I'd use a shotgun and slug no problem. There are a lot of gun snobs who wouldn't. So what. One of the best hunters I ever met hunted virtually every mammal in North America with an old .243 he'd inherited.
 
In my case, I've always liked shooting shotguns more than rifles. Part of the reason is the low pressure boom of a shotgun is far more comfortable to me than the sharp crack of a rifle, especially in the event of firing a shot in the woods without ear protection. Also, while a shotgun produces more recoil than rifle, how it recoils seems to be far different and less taxing on me (unless I'm shooting slugs from the bench which gets old fast).

Also, hunting for me has never been an activity I've taken to with a singular goal in mind. Even though it might be deer season, I'd rather end a day with a rabbit or few game birds rather than nothing at all. I like being able to swap out a slug for a load of birdshot and maybe bag some small game on the walk home after a long stretch of seeing absolutely nothing on the deer stand.
 
Shotguns for deer are pretty well respected around here. It may be a different story up north. I dont know , I dont spend a lot of time up there. Down here, the southern half of MN, rifles are not allowed. Many peolle go up north so they can use their rifles, but most also use shotguns down here too.
 
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Jason_W said:
In my case, I've always liked shooting shotguns more than rifles. Part of the reason is the low pressure boom of a shotgun is far more comfortable to me than the sharp crack of a rifle, especially in the event of firing a shot in the woods without ear protection. Also, while a shotgun produces more recoil than rifle, how it recoils seems to be far different and less taxing on me (unless I'm shooting slugs from the bench which gets old fast).

Also, hunting for me has never been an activity I've taken to with a singular goal in mind. Even though it might be deer season, I'd rather end a day with a rabbit or few game birds rather than nothing at all. I like being able to swap out a slug for a load of birdshot and maybe bag some small game on the walk home after a long stretch of seeing absolutely nothing on the deer stand.
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Those are good points. I don't wear ear protection when I am actually hunting deer. Part of the deer hunting experience for me is walking to the kill with a soft ring buzzing in my ear. Funny, but I can't say that I have shot a shotgun without ear protection. So I'm not sure if it would be easier on my ears.

Nothing wrong with taking home a rabbit.
 
A lot has change with shotguns in the last few years also. They have really become more viable for big game in my mind (within their limits).

I think a lot of the bad rep comes from guys trying to use a bird gun with little modifications to shot a "pumpkin ball" at large game with little luck.

The new Savage bolt guns I think are very good, whole new world in my mind from what I saw guys use 20yrs ago.
 
Turftech1 said:
Those are good points. I don't wear ear protection when I am actually hunting deer. Part of the deer hunting experience for me is walking to the kill with a soft ring buzzing in my ear. Funny, but I can't say that I have shot a shotgun without ear protection. So I'm not sure if it would be easier on my ears.

Nothing wrong with taking home a rabbit.
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It's never good to fire anything without hearing protection, but my experience has been that the boom from a shotgun makes my ears ring less than a centerfire rifle report. That's just me and my perception of things.
 
You know, if you live and hunt in part of the country where MOST shots on deer take place at less than 40 yards, say much of the South East, even parts of Indiana or Ohio, and other heathen places, there is not one darned thing wrong with buck shot.

In fact a lot of folks have been restricted to buckshot in many places.

Would a rifle be more accurate? Mechanically Absolutely. In Joe Slob Hunter's hands it ain't necessarily so.

Will Buck shot fired in the thick woods still do serious property damage and cause sever injury to humans or live stock a mile away when Joe Slob Hunter misses and paid no attention to safety fans? Not likely.

Honestly as far as wounded animals go, I do not know that shotguns wound a higher percentage of deer than Arrows or rifle bullets.

-kBob
 
kBob said:
You know, if you live and hunt in part of the country where MOST shots on deer take place at less than 40 yards, say much of the South East, even parts of Indiana or Ohio, and other heathen places, there is not one darned thing wrong with buck shot.

In fact a lot of folks have been restricted to buckshot in many places.

Would a rifle be more accurate? Mechanically Absolutely. In Joe Slob Hunter's hands it ain't necessarily so.

Will Buck shot fired in the thick woods still do serious property damage and cause sever injury to humans or live stock a mile away when Joe Slob Hunter misses and paid no attention to safety fans? Not likely.

Honestly as far as wounded animals go, I do not know that shotguns wound a higher percentage of deer than Arrows or rifle bullets.

-kBob
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There are even places out west where the woods are thick. I relocated from Maine to California (yeah, I know) about a year and a half ago and I was surprised at how thick the brush is in places, especially in the Northern California coastal regions.
 
Some shotguns can shoot slugs very well.
But they kick.
And many folks don't limit variables (buy ammo from one lot #, test different types of ammo to see what is best, experiment for cleaning interval and required foulers).

Many folks set their sluggers up with less than ideal sighting systems.

And even with all that done, many shoot them from lead sleds and funky body positions on the range..........and wonder why in the field the shot goes other than aimed.

Worked gun retail in a predominately shotgun state. The avg deer hunter is clueless. And many of them cheapskates.

They don't help the idea of shotguns shooting well.

My rigs, smoothbore or rifled...........100 yards is a gimme. 150's were too ;)

Did have one smoothbore that was 100 yd max. It was a cool old 870P running Activs. I wanted to run that, so tested for its limits and stayed with them.

Easy 75 yard rig. Of course the 8 pointer gets nuked at 25.

Best was 870 w rifled bbl. Receiver D&T. Leupold compact 4X. High comb stock, trigger job. Sub 2" @100 yds with WW HI Supremes (sold the gun when they stopped making that slug).

Impressive performance on deer. Folded a few with double lung hits.

If I had to go smoothbore, I'd get an old Mossberg 500 w 24" bbl and receiver D&T, add a cheekriser to the stock and an offset safety.
If I was to go rifled..............I'd buy my old 870 off my hunting bud (had two that shot great, but that one slightly better).

But my state went PCR...........so I run a trimmed .35 Rem in a TC Contender rifle. And even that might get shelved for a Ruger #1 rebarreled to .35 Rem.
 
My rifle is lighter, more trim, has better trigger, less recoil......and is good to 200 yards.

It doesn't do "double duty".

Some folks want a shotgun to do birds and rabbits and swap over for deer.
I like the idea of a dedicated deer rig.

With some states changing their regs..............old slug guns are at bargain prices.
 
My first deer hunting shotgun was a 12 double barrel rig with only the bead that came with it from the factory for sighting a 50 yd shot in the IC barrel with rifled slug was max for me but it put meat on the table.

My second rig was a 12ga pump gun with a scope and a smooth bore barrel which wasn't supposed to shoot sabot slugs but I tried them anyway and found out I could put three shots in a 4 inch target at 75 yd, this rig killed several but never shot over 60 yds .

Third shotgun a 20 ga pump with rifled barrel cantilever scoped and sabot slugs and would take a 100 yd shot if it presented itself.

Glad the laws here changed to allow pistol cartridge rifles, #4 is a Rossi 92 lever 45 Colt and tang sight, but still 60 yd is as far as I've ever had to shoot.
 
you'd think that a shotgun in the deer woods is only a slight upgrade from a pointy stick.
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Because in the evolution of hunting tools that is just about where it ranks.

We have evolved from bare hands to rocks, spears, archery tackle, muzzle loading black powder, breach loading black powder, and finally modern smokeless powder weapons.

A shotgun with buckshot rates right in between spears and archery as to effectiveness. With old school slugs they would rank just below a muzzle loading black powder rifle. With modern slugs a shotgun would be the equal of muzzle loading black powder rifle.

With modern sabot slugs a shotgun is a 200 yard weapon, muzzle loading rifles were making hits farther than that 200 years ago.

Recoil is another huge negative. Rifle hunters are often chastised for using 300 mags as hunting weapons because of excessive recoil. A typical shotgun shooting slugs equals or beats 300 WM recoil.

While a shotgun with slugs is certainly capable of killing deer at typical ranges a rifle does everything better and has no downsides.

I can't think of a single reason to pick a shotgun over a rifle unless I simply had no other choice. And I've been there. I started deer hunting with a shotgun because it was the only gun I owned. The next season I hunted with a borrowed rifle before earning enough money mowing lawns to buy my 1st rifle at age 16.
 
I'm not sure where shotguns with slugs are so looked down upon. I grew up in Michigan in a shotgun only area and shotguns and slugs were the only way people hunted for deer during the "rifle" season.

My first gun was a 12 ga Mossberg 500 combo with a 24 inch rifled slug barrel and a 28 inch vent rib barrel with interchangeable chokes. That gun took care of all of my hunting and shooting needs; deer, rabbits, squirrels, backyard clays. When I got married I added a 18.5 inch barrel and it took care of home defense as well. For a little over 20 years that was the only gun we owned.

(Then I inherited a little revolver and that kicked off a gun buying spree but that is a different story.)
 
Nothing wrong with a shotgun. My first gun was a Mossberg Model 500 I figured that with it I could chase anything. Deer, phesants, rabbits a good shotgun will do it all. now I have collected a few more firearms,but I still have the ol Mossberg,along wtih a couple other shotguns,and a few centerfire rifles ,.22's and pistols , but for a versital do it all kind of shooting iron IMHO you cant beat a 12 gauge
 
JSH1 said:
I'm not sure where shotguns with slugs are so looked down upon. I grew up in Michigan in a shotgun only area and shotguns and slugs were the only way people hunted for deer during the "rifle" season.
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This is the only reason people use shotguns for deer hunting. If it wasn't for states or areas within states that only allow shotguns (usually based on the flawed idea that they're safer in populated or flat areas) very very few people would use them. They're less accurate, often use more expensive ammo, recoil far harder in most cases, are often harder to mount optics on and are heavier. The only possibly valid advantage they have outside of misguided hunting laws is that they can be very slightly cheaper.
 
Shotguns have the advantage that you can use one gun for many purposes.
 
A lot of it is safety. A suitable deer rifle kicks much less for the same energy on target, so the scopes are mounted closer to the eye and give better fields of view, better magnification for a given field of view, etc. This leads to fewer shots at cows, noises in the bushes, etc.

There is also the general irresponsibility of the shotgun-owning population, with their long-standing practices of coating lake bottoms with lead, being shot by their own dogs, and causing the extinction of the Lesser Eastern Skeet. This causes the public perception that we're better off having our deer harvested by black-rifle builders using the longest-range calibers, largest-capacity magazines, and most electronic devices per rail.

Wait, it's Halloween... this was my April Fool's post :eek:
 
I think part of it is that folks in states where shotguns are mandated don't like laws telling 'em what to do, or guys in other states looking at it don't like a law like that. Personally, I've shot a LOT of deer and hogs over the years, and only one, 2 years ago, involved a shotgun and that's only because it's what I carry in the woods when I'm checking things out back. 3 buck did the job at 35 yards with 3 head hits and 5 neck hits.

I prefer my shotguns for a lot of things, but will still pick a rifle for deer or hogs if it's gun season. I don't NEED the rifle anymore unless I hunt my property I'm trying to sell. My new place is heavily wooded. I do have more confidence in my .308 at 100 yards, though.

That said, $400 won't buy a good (good not cheap) rifle scope let alone a nice rifle.
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Sort of an elitest statement. There are a lot of good scopes, not European scopes, but good scopes under 400 bucks. I really like my Weaver KV 2x10x40 and there's the VariX 1, the Nikon Pro Staff, and others I don't have experience with. Not everyone can afford nor wants to spend $4,000 or more on a Schmidt and Bender. Unless you own a Schmidt and Bender, you don't own the best. You, too, are compromising. :D

JMHO of course I have only bought one rifle that was "cheap", a Savage 110 I got in 1992. I paid less than 300 for it and it shoots MOA. It ain't the prettiest, but I'd rather use it than a shotgun during gun season. Took a New Mexico mulie with it at about 370 yards across a canyon off shooting sticks.
 
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jmr40 said:
Because in the evolution of hunting tools that is just about where it ranks.

We have evolved from bare hands to rocks, spears, archery tackle, muzzle loading black powder, breach loading black powder, and finally modern smokeless powder weapons.

A shotgun with buckshot rates right in between spears and archery as to effectiveness. With old school slugs they would rank just below a muzzle loading black powder rifle. With modern slugs a shotgun would be the equal of muzzle loading black powder rifle.

With modern sabot slugs a shotgun is a 200 yard weapon, muzzle loading rifles were making hits farther than that 200 years ago.

Recoil is another huge negative. Rifle hunters are often chastised for using 300 mags as hunting weapons because of excessive recoil. A typical shotgun shooting slugs equals or beats 300 WM recoil.

While a shotgun with slugs is certainly capable of killing deer at typical ranges a rifle does everything better and has no downsides.

I can't think of a single reason to pick a shotgun over a rifle unless I simply had no other choice. And I've been there. I started deer hunting with a shotgun because it was the only gun I owned. The next season I hunted with a borrowed rifle before earning enough money mowing lawns to buy my 1st rifle at age 16.
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Really? A recurve bow is a better deer weapon than a sighted smooth bore shotgun firing fosters?
 
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