Has bullet technology made caliber choice less important?

Status
Not open for further replies.
H&Hhunter

H&Hhunter

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
13,313
I think the answer is most definitely yes. The advances we've had in bullet quality in the last 20 years has made the choice of caliber far less important that it used to be. When you read Taylor and his take on caliber choice you must keep in mind that in his day they had two basic bullet choices. Full patch (solids) and exposed lead nose (soft point). The reason that he was such a proponent of high sectional density was that bullet of his day simply did hold together the way our wonderful controlled expansion bullets of today do.

Now on heavy, thick skinned, dangerous game such as cape buffalo, and elephant there is still much validity in using a heavy for caliber bullet even with new age controlled expansion and monolithic solids due to the need for as much straight line deep penetration as you can get. With that being said, it is my opinion that a quality controlled expansion bullet raises the effectiveness and usefulness of a given caliber up drastically when compared to a soft skinned cup and core bullet. the same can be said for bullet weight. In a .30-06 for instance a 150 gr controlled expansion bullet can be counted on to perform like a 180 or 200 gr traditional bullet and a 180 gr or 200 gr quality CE can be excepted to perform like a traditional bullet of similar sectional density in a .338 or similar. The same can be said for any just about any caliber.

Then we have the advances in chemistry that are making traditional calibers one step up in speed as well. The new powders being used for rounds such as the Hornandy Superformance line make an 06 into a .300H&H, a .300 WM into a .300 Weatherby ETC ETC..I wonder if there will comes a time when the case size becomes less relevant than the powder being used?
 
I wonder if there will comes a time when the case size becomes less relevant than the powder being used?
Click to expand...

Certainly possible, BUT, probably won't happen before the whole system is obsolete. Then there may be no powder at all... you know, Phased Pulse Plasma in the 40 watt range and whatnot...
 
I agree in general, although I'd characterize it a little differently by saying that improvements in bullet technology have broadened the spectrum of acceptable calibers for a given task. In other words, caliber selection isn't exactly "less important", because you still have to find a good one...but your search for an acceptable caliber will turn up more candidates thanks to improved bullet technology.
 
H&H,
Was wondering if you might start a thread like this. I think that the answer is yes. I also believe it has made some cartridges unneeded (not unwanted). Most cartridges, as I stated in another thread, are and have always been more than is needed. But our desire to have the newest, latest, and greatest have cost us a lot of wasted money. I don't think there has been a cartridge developed in the last 30 years that has been an improvement over any of the classics. But the classics have made huge strides with the advancements in powders, tooling, and metallurgy.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Has bullet technology made caliber choice less important?
Click to expand...

I too say yes, not only for hunting, but for SD/HD. While one still has to "use enough gun", the projectiles themselves have made it so velocity and bore size are of a less concern than in the past.
 
.I wonder if there will comes a time when the case size becomes less relevant than the powder being used?
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, in fact case size and even bullet diameter is less relevant than ever. The advent of bullets with very high BC's have changed the game as much as powders. Hornady recently introduced some new bullets they hyped as game changers. I agree, but they weren't the 1st. Nosler and Berger have been making similar bullets for a while and Hornady is the newest player to offer bullets with BC's in the high .6's and even low .7's.

For decades a 300 WM loaded with 180 Nosler Partitions was considered about the ideal load for most NA game larger than deer. A general rule of thumb is that about 1500 ft lbs of energy is the minimum needed at impact on elk size game. I understand that can be debated, but if we accept 1500 ft lbs as the minimum, and compare the 300 WM loaded with 180 gr Partitions to 30-06 and 308 loaded with 212 gr Hornady bullets they drop below 1500 ft lbs at the following ranges.

300 WM--600 yards
308--------600 yards
30-06-----700 yards

Beyond 600 yards both 308 and 30-06 have more energy than 300 WM if the old school bullets are used in the 300.

Of course the same bullets loaded into a 300 WM will remain above 1500 ft lbs all the way out to 900 yards.

I'm not advocating anyone shoot at game at 600 yards, let alone 900. But this certainly puts todays 308 loads about equal to a 300 WM using bullet designs from decades ago.

And you don't have to shoot long range for the differences to show up. You will have over 200 ft lbs more energy at 200 yards with a 308 shooting the new bullets than you would shooting old school 180. Even though the 180 were over 150 fps faster at the muzzle.
 
I have always thought that was why Elmer Keith disliked the .30-06. He could not get the bullets that a .30 needed to shoot as effectively as a .33 or .35 plain softpoint. Plus the bad habit of some hunters in those days using full patch military. He referred to one guy shooting at game with National Match boattails.
 
Absolutely!
Consider that most elephant control is now done with FAL's or RPK's (I think what soviet made equivalent to M14 in 7.62x54 is called, w/Russian 196gr steel core ammo).

Bullets such as Barnes monolithic or Swift bonded A-frames allow such as the .25/06 or .257Wby to punch much above their weight with such as the Barnes 80grn TTSX, or 100grn A-frame or Scirocco.

Personally, I'm fine with hunting elk with a 7mm08 with 150grn Nosler partitions, especially after seeing a Hornady 200grn Spt fail to expand sufficiently on a broadside lung hit on a 500lb cow elk from my .338/06. Sometimes "too much" bullet ain't a good thing.
Also, 100yrs of metallurgy has vastly improved plain old cast bullets. I've got my .35Rem loaded with cast standing in the corner in case Bambi makes a daylight appearance in the back yard.
 
The only place the "new" bullet technology is paying any dividends is for those that for what ever reason choose to shoot a "magnum". A cup and core bullet with a sd of 240 or more driven at moderate velocity will still shoot thru most big game animals at reasonable ranges.
The trend to magnum cartridges today pretty much flies in the face of what they originally did, ie, the 300's their selling point was they could drive a 200 gr bullet as fast or faster than the 06 could a 180, thereby giving it a bit of an edge especially at longer distances. Todays shooter wants to shoot those magnum cartridges but doesn't like the recoil, so they tend to shoot lighter bullets, and lighter traditional cup and core bullets driven at the higher velocity can cause some dismal failures at the typical ranges most game is shot at. So the Barnes and "premium" bullets let folks shoot the big cartridges with lighter bullets at recoil levels they can sort of tolerate, and still get acceptable performance on game.
 
I don't necessarily agree that only magnum cartridges are benefiting from better bullets. In fact I would hazard a guess that the other end of the spectrum has benefited more. The heavy for caliber controlled expansion bullets vastly improved the standing of the 243, and has been quickly moving the 22 caliber centerfires out of the varmint realm. Folks can argue all day long about why these small calibers are being elevated, but the fact remains that they are getting incrementally better every year.
 
I should probably look for some magic bullet for the .257 Roberts, but my 100 grain Game Kings never stopped working and they're so friggin' accurate, 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. I hunt more with black powder or my .308 anymore, anyway. Would make a decent project to keep me busy in the off season, I suppose. I mean, I'm always looking for something fun to do in ballistics. :D
 
Hard to say. The newest Hornady bullets have not done anything for me the old Remington Core-Lokt didn't do just as well. But that's not a valid sampling.

I have to say the advances in bullet technology have certainly created more accurate bullets with better flight characteristics, but does that negate (or partially negate) the need for good cartridge choices? Maybe so, but I'd think only marginally. More testing is required.
 
It sure has.

I'd be surprised if anyone that keeps up with and actually uses/tests what newer bullets are capable of would disagree.

Not a big advocate of .22 centerfires for whitetails, but from first hand experience they absolutely work with good bullets.

I also believe that had Gold Dot/HST quality bullets been available 35 years ago, there would have never been a 10mm/.40 S&W.

Yep. Bullets are the only thing that does the work.
 
H&Hhunter said:
I think the answer is most definitely yes. The advances we've had in bullet quality in the last 20 years has made the choice of caliber far less important that it used to be.
Click to expand...
I think it's been a lot longer than 20 years. When Nosier introduced the partition bullet 65 years ago he changed the game.
Early HV rifles suffered a rep of disintegrating bullets. The .280 Ross was infamous for that. The Nosler ushered in the age of lighter, faster bullets.
 
MCGunner;
Sierra GameKings ARE MAGIC BULLETS.
My only deer so far this season dropped to a 100gr from 257Robt.
But a headshot at 60' tends to do that. What was magic is that the deer came out and took it!
Something magical about that rifle and cartridge. Luckiest gun I own!

For a little something different, try the Berger 115gr Hunting VLD, over some IMR 4831.
Another "magical load"!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
What is the most versatile caliber?
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
143
Views
12K
gglass
G
H&Hhunter
  • Locked
The “best” round for, deer, elk, pronghorn, black bear, so on and so forth.
2 3
Replies
55
Views
2K
d2wing
d2wing
L
  • Locked
44 mag bullet choices from rifle
Replies
19
Views
5K
BudgetBucks1
B
S
  • Locked
Bullet performance on game (theoretical)
Replies
8
Views
760
Art Eatman
A
Lennyjoe
Hornady ELD-X or Barnes LRX for long range Elk?
Replies
23
Views
673
H&Hhunter
H&Hhunter
Back
Top