Can I gift my daughter a gun?

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BBQJOE

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My Daughter is visiting from CO. I'm thinking about giving her one of my pistols for Christmas.
Can I do this?
 
No. She is not a resident of your state. To be legal you'd have to transfer the gun to a FFL licensee in her state who would transfer the gun to her. Your relationship to her is immaterial.

I know , everybody does it and end everybody commits federal felonies by doing so.
 
AZ-resident to CO-resident is an interstate transfer; doesn't matter where the gun is.

So yugorpk is right; Fedlaw requires the FFL in (in this case) CO for that transfer.
 
hso said:
What if he were visiting her and he wanted to give his firearm to her?
He and his daughter would need to go to a cooperating FFL to have the transfer done in compliance with all federal (e. g., 4473, background check, etc.) and any required state formalities.

Here (for the umpteenth time) is the whole federal law story on interstate firearms transfer (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

  • Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

  • In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  • In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.C] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  • There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  • Here's what the statutes say:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ...
 
Well, she's 30. I just took her shooting for the first time. First round out of the 9mm, target went ding. First round out of the .44 went ding.
She said, that's enough for me!!!
I don't think she's cut out for firearms.
 
Define "transfer". I live in GA so would it be legal for me to allow my brother in Alabama to "borrow" a rifle or a pistol? He doesn't do guns so it's not going to happen but what if?
 
Well, she's 30. I just took her shooting for the first time. First round out of the 9mm, target went ding. First round out of the .44 went ding.
She said, that's enough for me!!!
I don't think she's cut out for firearms.
So... You're not interested in giving her a gun anymore?

That was fast.
 
jrdolall said:
Define "transfer". I live in GA so would it be legal for me to allow my brother in Alabama to "borrow" a rifle or a pistol? He doesn't do guns so it's not going to happen but what if?

As previously cited, there is an exception in 18 USC 922 (a)(5)(B) for "the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes."
 
jrdolall said:
Define "transfer". I live in GA so would it be legal for me to allow my brother in Alabama to "borrow" a rifle or a pistol? ...
If he came to visit you, you could loan him a gun temporarily (subject to state law) so you could go target shooting together or hunt together. He could not take the gun home with him, nor could you send the gun "on loan" to him in his State.

  1. The federal laws I've cited are about possession.

    • Possession means:
      1 a : the act of having or taking into control...

      If you have something in your hands, you have control of it, and therefore possession of it.

    • Transfer is about possession, not ownership.

      Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):


    • Let's look at the statutes:

      • 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
        (a) It shall be unlawful—
        ...

        (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

      • And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
        (a) It shall be unlawful—
        ...

        (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

    • Note carefully the words of those statutes. Words, like "transport", "receive", "obtained", "transfer", "give", "transport", and "deliver" do not necessarily imply ownership and include possession.

  2. With regard to loans, let's look at the applicable statutes again:

    • 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
      (a) It shall be unlawful—
      ...

      (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

    • And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
      (a) It shall be unlawful—
      ...

      (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

      (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest ..., and

      (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​
      ..

    • So under federal law a resident of one State may loan a gun to a resident of another State, but only temporarily and only for a lawful sporting purpose. But the loan exception to the interstate transfer rule is found only in 18 USC 922(a)(5), so if the person to whom the gun is loaned takes it home with him, he has violated 18 USC 922(a)(3).

    • Temporary means:
      : continuing for a limited amount of time : not permanent

      : intended to be used for a limited amount of time

    • Sporting means (in this context):
      ...of, relating to, used, or suitable for sport...

    • Purpose means (in this context):
      : the reason why something is done or used : the aim or intention of something

    • So a court is likely to look at the "temporary loan for a lawful sporting purpose" exception to the prohibition on interstate transfers to apply when a gun is loaned so that the person it's been loaned to can engage in a specific sporting activity (i. e., a hunt, a competition, etc.) of limited duration. "Temporary" would refer to the duration of that activity. Such an interpretation would be consistent with the common meanings of the words used in the statutes and the underlying purpose (controlling interstate transfers of firearms) of GCA68.

  3. Note that violations of federal law regarding interstate transfers are punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine; and since the crime is a felony one will lose his gun rights for the rest of his life.
 
If I were doing this, I'd take it with me to CO on my next trip and do the transfer at a FFL dealer there.... if she's interested of course.
 
I understand the law, but I don't think it was intended to make gifting illegal; we just have idiots who abuse common sense.

My daughter lived in Florida last year, moved home for six months and then moved back down to Florida. She didn't like her CZ model 83 .380 and really liked my J-Frame model 442 .38 SPL. While she was living with us, I gifted it to her; she now has it down in FL.

I do have a running list of which firearms go to my son and my daughter. I just have them notarized, but not necessarily in my Will yet. I do make sure the dates match when she resided in the same state. I updated my daughter's list to include the model 442 before she moved back to FL. I also have the rest of her firearms, so, it's important to annotate that as they will much easier to transfer as part of a Will.

A good case where bureaucrats, not gun owners, make laws that just make no sense...

ROCK6
 
ROCK6 said:
I understand the law, but I don't think it was intended to make gifting illegal....

  1. The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA) doesn't make gifts illegal. But it does require that the gift of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another be done through an FFL.

  2. The GCA was indeed intended broadly regulate the interstate transfer of firearms and to, essentially, make selling, giving, or otherwise transferring a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another without going through an FFL illegal and punishable as a federal felony, expect in a few, specified exceptions. A gift is not a specified exception.

  3. Federal law regarding the interstate transfer of firearms was enacted by the GCA. GCA was Congress' responding to enormous public pressure after the assignations by gunfire of three wildly popular public figures -- JFK, RFK and MLK. It was structured so that to the extent reasonably possible any transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another would have to go through an FFL. The exceptions are limited and narrow -- driven largely by concern over the fact that JFK was assassinated with a rifle purchase by mail order.

ROCK6 said:
....I do have a running list of which firearms go to my son and my daughter. I just have them notarized, but not necessarily in my Will yet....
Understand that the list really has no legal effect. If you really want a certain result you need to make sure that the guns, and who should get them, are listed in a properly drawn, legally valid will. Otherwise, you can't be sure.

ROCK6 said:
...A good case where bureaucrats, not gun owners, make laws that just make no sense...
Those laws might make no sense to you, but a judge will think differently. We need to understand the laws as they are and as they are likely to be applied by the courts.
 
Can you give a gun to your wife who lives with you obviously? Without having to do some FFL transfer crap?

So when you buy a gun and do the background check its so the government knows you own that gun right?
 
javjacob said:
Can you give a gun to your wife who lives with you obviously? Without having to do some FFL transfer crap?....
That would be strictly a matter of state law since it doesn't involve an interstate transfer. I suspect that in many States it would be okay; but since I haven't done the research for all the States (and have no intention of doing the research), I won't opine on the question more definitively.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Those laws might make no sense to you, but a judge will think differently. We need to understand the laws as they are and as they are likely to be applied by the courts.

I understand, but the absurdity that laws "made by the people" must be interpreted in a court of law, just makes no sense and I doubt the law-makers put much research into the writing of this law. We have created an entire legal language that the common man can't decipher in plain text and interpretations can vary depending on politics, precedence and personality. Laws are good in a free society; however laws that the law-abiding don't understand easily and clearly are eventual chains of slavery for tyrants.

This will hopefully be my last rant of 2015 and I'll try and turn a new leaf:D Happy New Year all!

ROCK6
 
Know what's almost funny? A large chunk of Americans think we need more gun laws. They simply have no clue about the amount of laws on the books. Couple that with the obfuscation in the language, it's far more limiting than the Founders ever intended. I know I'll get a snappy comeback about obfuscation and the phrase "words mean thing". Agreed, they do. But when words take on a meaning other than plain language, there is a problem.

I just re-read the previous post and agree completely. Laws incomprehensible (and deliberately so) by the common man are the tools of tyrants and dictators.
 
Paraphrased: "Can I give it to my wife (who lives w/ me)?"
Interesting question in a joint property state.

For Frank: What is I-594/Wash State law on UBC now interpreted to mean ?
 
MEHavey said:
...For Frank: What is I-594/Wash State law on UBC now interpreted to mean ?
It beats me -- at least for now. I haven't done the research, and I really don't have any immediate plans to do the research.

Now that you've asked the question we might well get the usual assortment of guess from folks who really don't know. When I come upon any such posts, I'll be deleting them.

If someone actually does have a good answer and can back that answer up with citation to, and quotation from the actual law, plus any other germane legal authority, please feel free to contribute. But anything less is unlikely to survive in this thread long.
 
Washington State Code from I-594 Sec.3
(4) This section does not apply to:
(a) A transfer between immediate family members, which for this
subsection shall be limited to spouses, domestic partners, parents,
children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews,
first cousins, aunts, and uncles, that is a bona fide gift;"

Can I keep my answer?
 
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