FiveStrings
Member
Duster, that fugly Enfield rocks.
What exactly is a "truck gun?"
- Thread starter jim in Anchorage
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Duster340
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2015
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- 850
Thanks FiveStings. Bought the old No4 Mk1back in about 1980 for $75 only to find the last 5-6" of barrel was toast (key holed at 25 yrd!). Buried it in a closet and forgot about it until a few years ago. Dug it out to see if I could make a shooter out of it. Cut the barrel back to a hair over 16.5", re-crowned the muzzle and trimmed/shaped the stock to retain a somewhat original look. Turned out the be a handy little rifle. Ironically in addition to being my "trunk gun", it's now also my go-to deer gun that is darn near perfect in the dense cedar wetlands on the property.
Be well
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Sistema1927
Member
I used to carry an Enfield Jungle carbine and an extra bandoleer of ammo all the time under the back seat of my F150 Supercab. Haven't found a good way to secure/hide a rifle in my Tacoma, but the carbine rides along when we take road trips away from civilization.
DaisyCutter
Member
I find that thinking grossly irresponsible. Why don't we all take a beater gun and toss it in an alley.
BTW, if Joey at the South end of your street gets mad, smashes your car window, takes your gun and shoots Timmy at the North end, who precisely do you think is getting sued? Criminal liability and civil liability are very different. You may not got to jail, but forfeiting every asset you own is no picnic, either.
I avoid having any of my firearms unsecured outside my immediate span of control. I'm not a leftist... Not a commie. I carry everywhere, bless H.R. 218.
I just have to live in contemporary reality.
I "truck gun" is an obsolete notion for most folk. IMO, call it a"trip gun" or "adventure gun" and don't leave it rolling around in the trunk for a year's worth of trips to Walmart... Sitting in the parking lot.
Tell the guy whose daughter gets raped & murdered at the end of your stolen truck gun that it was only a beater, and insured.... It'll be very comforting to him.
My opinion is that in an urban or suburban (not rural) setting, leaving a firearm in a vehicle indefinitely is irresponsible. People can & do have different opinions from me.
WestKentucky
Member
Which generation of Taco? My 16 has what is essentially a small shelf behind the back seat which begs for a rifle to be stored there.
I don't think anyone is proposing that.
I would really love to know of a case where someone broke into a car or home, used a gun in a crime, and the car/home owner was sued.
How is a gun in a locked car or home 'unsecured'? We aren't talking about leaving it on the front seat of an unlocked car.
So you don't think that guy could have gotten a gun some other way? Go to a bad neighborhood, wave enough cash, and you'll have no problem getting a gun. If he stole my knife and raped someone is that my fault also? I'm more concerned about someone in my family being brutalized if I DON'T have a gun. I would find THAT grossly irresponsible.
IMHO being attacked without a gun would change your mind. There are more crimes in urban settings than rural.
RPRNY
Member
A long gun you are comfortable keeping in your truck.
USAF_Vet
Member
Cheap is relative. For a guy who makes six figures a year, a $900 Colt AR might be cheap. For a guy who makes the same six figure income, it could be considered expensive. For someone who makes considerably less, that same $900 Colt might not be viewed as expensive. So who cares about cheap? It's meaningless and lacks a clear definition.
As it stands, I can still find perfectly functional guns for well under $200. My single shot 20 gauge I bought for $89.95 plus tax, and was an excellent varmint killer. It was my go-to walking the property long gun. It was cheap, but not something I'm looking to sell, and would throw it in the back of the truck if I didn't want something with better capacity. It would make a perfectly suitable truck gun, under different circumstances. It's just not the truck gun for me.
Again, it all relative. First, you're assuming it'll be stored in such a way that will cause damage or be neglected. A truck gun that goes unfired and uncleaned and unoiled for months at a time wouldn't be any different than the Type 38 Arisaka I have in the gun cabinet. It's not getting damaged and it's not being neglected, but it's not being shot, cleaned or oiled on any regular basis either. Maybe once a year. Likely longer.
I'm not going to deliberately damage a gun, or store it in such a way that it will likely be damaged, even if it is in the back of the vehicle. Most guns I'd consider for a truck gun already sport enough cosmetic damage that a few extra dents, dings and scratches won't hurt, and would likely go unnoticed. The AR I'm building as a truck gun will have a brand new upper receiver, on a used, painted lower. It'll be stored securely, broken down. A thief is going to have to put a lot of effort into getting it out of my truck, but I won't be bragging about the fact that it's there in the first place. It'll likely be better secured than most of the guns I have in my home.
And this is relevant how? We can all pine for the days when you could visibly keep a gun in the truck, back in the good ole days when the homicide rate was near double what it is today. I'm perfectly fine with concealing a long gun and storing it securely, while maintaining a murder rate that's never been lower in my lifetime. It's a small price to pay and a minor inconvenience.
Citation please. I'd like to see proof that this actually happens, or at least on such a regular basis as to be a point of concern. Guns are stolen and used in crimes daily. Why is it we never read about it in the papers or online, or hear about it on TV news? It's a fear mongering argument with no basis in reality. While I'll relent and say it's probably happened, it's not frequent, and not something I anticipate happening.
NEED? How about the RIGHT?
I'm never likely to deliberately drive into a situation where I NEED a rifle. How often is the average citizen aware he is driving into a dangerous situation? I recollect a driving gun fight between a murderer and the police a few years ago in Grand Rapids, MI that happened on or near some of the back roads and major highways I used daily to get to and from work. Had I gone out for lunch that afternoon, rather than eating at the shop, I could have been right in the thick of it. Or the bank robbery nearby where the robbers induced panic by throwing cash into the streets to clog the roads and make their getaway.
Fact is, without a police scanner, no one will know if they are driving into an active riot or dangerous situation. I wouldn't be the wiser until I was right on top of it. Is it a likely scenario? No, not where I live, not where I work, and not on my commute to and from.
But, my situation does not mirror every situation imaginable. And my Magic 8 Ball got sent in for calibration. So I try to be prepared for any situation that may come up. I carry tools, jumper cables, extra water, a fire extinguisher and a full size spare in my vehicles, with the notion that I may need them, although it is unlikely. I have had a flat tire, a dead battery, a small fire, and parts break that I can contend with on my own when the need arises. I am my own roadside assistance.
The point is, I already have a handgun with me wherever I go, as often as legally possible. I carry one in light of the possibility that I'll likely never need to use it. Why would a locked and secured truck gun be any different? Likely I'll never need it. But to bring it up again, It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I've lived and worked in very urban areas, suburban sprawl, and rural farmlands. One thing I've come to see is that a vehicle is a very convenient place to store things where other people will know to look for them. In other words, a theft box. I've seen small things grabbed. Big expensive things grabbed. Stuff bolted to the car taken. And -- of course -- had a whole vehicle swiped, contents and all. No one would consider that unexpected. Hell one of the most popular video game series out right now is friggin' Grand Theft Auto! We don't need a better clue that cars are not "safe storage" and are not "just like your house."
That's not fair, that's not right, that's not how it should be. But it is how it is.
Now, if your stereo, cash, gun, phone, etc, were all scattered around your yard, a thief would have to go looking here and there for them, but since we have these easily entered storage boxes on four wheels, they know right where to look. Oh, I keep my gun in the trunk, safely hidden! Because no one rifling through a car EVER would think to look there. Ever. Or under the back seat. Out of sight means someone who makes part of their living ripping off cars, or the contents of them, would never think to look for valuables and weapons anywhere other than on the seat in plain sight.
Simple question: Would anyone intentionally leave $1,000 cash in their car parked in their suburban driveway or town/city street, just as a matter of course? Big roll of $10 and $20 bills? Glove box? Trunk? No. Nobody would do that and if you did you wouldn't sleep well. (Six-figure income or no.) But a gun? Sure. Why not? Why is a bunch of money -- that it would be fairly challenging to kill someone with, but is more universally useful in solving problems than a gun is -- too big a theft risk, but a firearm is not?
A wad of cash gets stolen and maybe it gets used to buy drugs. Or food, or new sneakers, or whatever the thief might want. A gun gets stolen and as complete contraband, immediately enters the black market where it can only have one purpose -- as a tool for future violence.
Not your responsibility? Not your problem? Hmmm. Maybe you can't see anything in shades other than utter black and stark white, but I can. No, we don't blame a victim. But we surely do talk all the time about how to avoid becoming one. How to minimize risks -- and in this case, how to minimize the risk of moving another deadly weapon into the criminal pool of society.
That's not fair, that's not right, that's not how it should be. But it is how it is.
Now, if your stereo, cash, gun, phone, etc, were all scattered around your yard, a thief would have to go looking here and there for them, but since we have these easily entered storage boxes on four wheels, they know right where to look. Oh, I keep my gun in the trunk, safely hidden! Because no one rifling through a car EVER would think to look there. Ever. Or under the back seat. Out of sight means someone who makes part of their living ripping off cars, or the contents of them, would never think to look for valuables and weapons anywhere other than on the seat in plain sight.
Simple question: Would anyone intentionally leave $1,000 cash in their car parked in their suburban driveway or town/city street, just as a matter of course? Big roll of $10 and $20 bills? Glove box? Trunk? No. Nobody would do that and if you did you wouldn't sleep well. (Six-figure income or no.) But a gun? Sure. Why not? Why is a bunch of money -- that it would be fairly challenging to kill someone with, but is more universally useful in solving problems than a gun is -- too big a theft risk, but a firearm is not?
A wad of cash gets stolen and maybe it gets used to buy drugs. Or food, or new sneakers, or whatever the thief might want. A gun gets stolen and as complete contraband, immediately enters the black market where it can only have one purpose -- as a tool for future violence.
Not your responsibility? Not your problem? Hmmm. Maybe you can't see anything in shades other than utter black and stark white, but I can. No, we don't blame a victim. But we surely do talk all the time about how to avoid becoming one. How to minimize risks -- and in this case, how to minimize the risk of moving another deadly weapon into the criminal pool of society.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
Devonai
Member
Wouldn't it be a simple matter to bring your weapon inside at night? That's what I used to do.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Would it? We've heard from a law enforcement officer who does exactly that, every night. And from a whole lot of folks who keep a firearm in their vehicle ALWAYS, so it is simply there anytime they go get in the car or truck, without having to think about it or go get it.
Personally I would find it quite a hassle to carry a long gun out to my car every day and bring it in again every night. My hands are always full to the point of dropping stuff more often than not.
But I can't come up with a credible reason to have a long gun with me in my vehicle at all times, based on the life I've lived so far, and the training and practice I have acquired in fighting in and around a vehicle with a firearm. So I'm probably predisposed to find the reasons given rather uncompelling -- even if I didn't have a fairly dim view of blase attitudes toward firearm theft.
Officers'Wife
Member
And I find that thinking reprehensible. I am sick to death of having it implied that I am responsible for the irresponsible behavior of the criminal element.
When I was being home schooled Dad showed me an advertisement that had the big bold letters - Take your keys, don't let a good boy go bad. He explained in great length how shallow minds would consider that a positive thought. But- it's not the good boys that steal cars!
Tell you what... If I park my truck next to the old Purdue surplus outlet and two escapees from community corrections take the bolt cutters and use them on their handcuffs have I aided and abetted an escape? If they siphon fuel out of the jump tank and use it to burn down a building am I an accessory to arson? If they force the lock on the tool box and use one of the wrenches to disconnect the brake line on a police car causing a fatal crash have I committed a 1st degree murder?
My Dad tells me of a time when his high school had a row of pick up trucks each with a rifle in the rack on the back window. Not one was stolen and used to shoot up the school. I firmly believe it was because grandpa and his friends parents neither asked or accepted advice on how to raise their children. Today... Can you really expect an out of control government to dictate the raising of anything but out of control children? Don't steal my tools then tell me I'm responsible for your misusing them.
My name is Selena and I am a ranter.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Anything can be taken to an extreme to try to make the concept look foolish or incorrect.
If someone siphons gas out of your car and burns down a building are you guilty of arson? Of course not.
If someone steals a gun from your gun safe and sells it to someone who ends up murdering someone else with it, are you guilty of murder, or an accessory to it? Of course not.
If you leave a gun out on a table on the sidewalk in front of your apartment and a kid picks it up and shoots another kid with it, would you be considered to have played a responsible part in that? Yes, you would. "Good little boys don't shoot people" will sound pretty hollow and won't persuade anyone that you have no share in this tragedy.
See how that works both ways?
And since it does work both ways that means that there are grey areas of shared responsibility. Perhaps not always legal liability and perhaps you cannot be held accountable in a punitive sense. But if you know that something happens commonly, and you know that your habits of operation are exactly those which make that common event possible, then you are not doing a very simple thing you could do to prevent that event.
We all have to make choices, and, for example, it isn't reasonable to take all your tools out of the truck every night so an escaped criminal couldn't steal them and cut off their cuffs. The social damage at risk there is slight, the personal effort involved would be monumental and detrimental. That wouldn't be reasonable.
(Ahem... unless, of course, you live in a high-crime neighborhood and you have to take special precautions to use high-security truck box locks and/or park the vehicle in a secured building or high fenced yard just to protect your own investments and inconvenience ... which many do.)
Is it reasonable to not leave a deadly weapon in your vehicle all the time if your vehicle is averagely vulnerable to burglary or theft? I think so. That's a reasonable precaution to protect yourself from loss and trouble, and to not allow your own choices and habits to be contributing factors in "gun violence" as some folks like to phrase it.
By that reasoning you could say that about a house also. Even if in a safe, I doubt there is any safe than can't be broken into or carted off, it basically is telling criminals there's good stuff in there. There is no guarantee any gun you own won't be stolen. It's why mine are insured, in or out of the house.
Because the gun is insured, the cash is not.
Or the cash is used to buy a gun on the black market. What's the difference?
Do you feel the same about keeping knives in a car? Police with guns in their cars? Honest armed citizens are society's free cops.
If you and your loved ones choose to be unarmed, go ahead. Count me out.
I never understood gun owners who are afraid of guns.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Sigh. Not leaving guns in an unattended car as a matter of course is leaving myself and my loved ones unarmed and I am afraid of guns.
Ok. If that's what you got out of my thoughts, well, hmmmm.
Ok. If that's what you got out of my thoughts, well, hmmmm.
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
ApacheCoTodd
member
Parameters for me:
<deleted>
Needs to not be high maintenance as it sits, at best, ignored if not outright abused to a certain degree for long periods of time.
Not a lot of snagging protrusions as I expect to be able to pull it out by the butt without fighting it. Maybe one or two twists are tolerated.
Must be able to fire it accurately without batteries so no artificially illuminated optics.
Must have very good iron sights if also fitted with optics.
Should be able to mercifully put down an Elk from a safe - to me - distance.
Should not have a detachable magazine.
In the past my;
Mossberg 590,
SKS,
Marlin levers,
FAR-8,
M-1 Carbine (5 round mags)
have fit the bill to name a few. Currently I'm figuring out new sights for this to be my next "Truck Gun". After I'm happy with sights, the original and bayonet fitting will come off to make it smoother up front. Somewhere around here is a Dokter sight that'll work well on it.
<deleted>
Needs to not be high maintenance as it sits, at best, ignored if not outright abused to a certain degree for long periods of time.
Not a lot of snagging protrusions as I expect to be able to pull it out by the butt without fighting it. Maybe one or two twists are tolerated.
Must be able to fire it accurately without batteries so no artificially illuminated optics.
Must have very good iron sights if also fitted with optics.
Should be able to mercifully put down an Elk from a safe - to me - distance.
Should not have a detachable magazine.
In the past my;
Mossberg 590,
SKS,
Marlin levers,
FAR-8,
M-1 Carbine (5 round mags)
have fit the bill to name a few. Currently I'm figuring out new sights for this to be my next "Truck Gun". After I'm happy with sights, the original and bayonet fitting will come off to make it smoother up front. Somewhere around here is a Dokter sight that'll work well on it.
Attachments
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FROGO207
Member
I kinda split the difference with mine. A SS Ruger SBH 44 MAG with ten inch BBL. Plenty of get er done there along with low maintenance and a long sight radius without being carbine length. Not the most inexpensive but all around handy just the same. I feel it will be fairly good at a lot of things when needed. BTW I can hit a standard NRA rifle target at 100 YDS all six shots 3/4 of the time with it's iron sights. so I will give up little to a rifle at that distance. It stays in my vehicle (within reach) 24/7 but comes out to practice with me a couple times a month on average. FWIW I also have a HiPoint C-9 there as well. But I feel that taking a long gun in and out of a vehicle every day would just assure you were watched and probably targeted all that much sooner in a lot of areas. Around here we are semi rural and the general crime rate is fairly low.
A SS Ruger SBH 44 MAG with ten inch BBL. Plenty of get er done there along with low maintenance and a long sight radius without being carbine length. Not the most inexpensive but all around handy just the same. I feel it will be fairly good at a lot of things when needed. BTW I can hit a standard NRA rifle target at 100 YDS all six shots 3/4 of the time with it's iron sights. so I will give up little to a rifle at that distance. It stays in my vehicle (within reach) 24/7 but comes out to practice with me a couple times a month on average. FWIW I also have a HiPoint C-9 there as well. But I feel that taking a long gun in and out of a vehicle every day would just assure you were watched and probably targeted all that much sooner in a lot of areas. Around here we are semi rural and the general crime rate is fairly low.rugerman
Member
For me it is a backup to my every day carry handgun, sometimes a rifle in the same caliber(Marlin 357 to go with my security six, or high point 9mm carbine to go with one of my 9mmers, sometimes it's a shotgun) it's according to what I think I might need at the time.
Officers'Wife
Member
I contend that attitudes like that do more to contribute to "violence" than theft. The responsibility is civil not criminal. The shooter, once captured is going to be bankrupted by the legal system so to win the ghetto lottery they need the so called irresponsibility of the owner as a source of deep pockets.
Psychologically it enforces the idea in the criminal's mind that since the "stuff" is left where it can be stolen it's the owner's fault if it is stolen. In the original post it was implied the person that had a weapon stolen should take responsibility if the neighbor's daughter is rape using the weapon as coercion. By that logic the OB-GYN should also take responsibility for allowing the rapist to keep his equipment at birth. Two equally absurd statements to answer the ridiculous statement of the original poster.
i sleep pretty well at night. but my house has a garage. I don't sweat vehicle theft though. and I have a lot more valuables than a gun in there. heck my ham radio's worth more than the rifle. and then there's the night vision, plate carrier, cash, etc.
maybe the lawyers are worse now, but I don't think crime is worse now than in the 70s and 80s when people left their doors unlocked. sure, people's perceptions have changed a lot. was it child abuse for my parents to let me walk a mile to school in kindergarden in suburban sacramento? i don't think so. I think people have lost their minds today. Do the facts really warrant it? not to me. so what is it that REALLY changed to make people think a shotgun in the back window of a truck is totally inappropriate today? as far as i'm concerned, the only legit reason not to is because the rear windows are electric and slide open.
Apachedriver
Member
I respect your opinions but...
I see what you did there. You conflated two different situations, one of which is aimed at striking at the hearts of readers. A child grabbing a firearm left unsecured is absolutely unlike a reasoning adult grabbing that same firearm for nefarious purposes; Let alone an adult that chooses to break in first.
I don't leave a firearm in my vehicle. I'd hate to return only to face my own weapon, thereby, become forced to take required actions to stop the threat. It's a matter of tactical advantage. Therefore, I don't want others to be put in that circumstance either.
I don't delude myself into believing that I bear any fault in what a criminal chooses to do with a firearm stolen from my vehicle or home. If the firearm is secured out of plain sight under lock and key, then to blame the legal owner for the criminals choices/actions is no different than blaming a rape victim for the choices/actions of the rapist.
I agree we must be smart and responsible in how we secure firearms, but, where is the line drawn to stop blaming the legal owner? Perhaps we should keep our firearms in a local armory? Then we can sign them out during its hours of operation if our homes are not impregnable fortresses. Should we be required to stay and use an onsite range to further reduce the chance of theft? Would gun violence then no longer be the fault of the legal owner? Would gun violence then be stamped out for good?
The criminal makes up his own mind on his actions. Let's put the singular blame where it belongs: the criminal. Let's stop coddling them and start punishing them before we apply rehabilitation.
I see what you did there. You conflated two different situations, one of which is aimed at striking at the hearts of readers. A child grabbing a firearm left unsecured is absolutely unlike a reasoning adult grabbing that same firearm for nefarious purposes; Let alone an adult that chooses to break in first.
I don't leave a firearm in my vehicle. I'd hate to return only to face my own weapon, thereby, become forced to take required actions to stop the threat. It's a matter of tactical advantage. Therefore, I don't want others to be put in that circumstance either.
I don't delude myself into believing that I bear any fault in what a criminal chooses to do with a firearm stolen from my vehicle or home. If the firearm is secured out of plain sight under lock and key, then to blame the legal owner for the criminals choices/actions is no different than blaming a rape victim for the choices/actions of the rapist.
I agree we must be smart and responsible in how we secure firearms, but, where is the line drawn to stop blaming the legal owner? Perhaps we should keep our firearms in a local armory? Then we can sign them out during its hours of operation if our homes are not impregnable fortresses. Should we be required to stay and use an onsite range to further reduce the chance of theft? Would gun violence then no longer be the fault of the legal owner? Would gun violence then be stamped out for good?
The criminal makes up his own mind on his actions. Let's put the singular blame where it belongs: the criminal. Let's stop coddling them and start punishing them before we apply rehabilitation.
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