Smart Guns and problems with carry outside the home

RFID technology is very reliable and the only type of smart gun technology that I personally would use at this time. The most common failure mode would come from letting the battery in the gun go dead. That could be prevented with routine maintenance.

I don't think smart gun technology should be mandatory but I also don't have any problem with companies working on the technology. If someone wants to buy one that is fine by me.

I can't remember to charge my phone, how will I remember to charge my gun?

Aim1 said:

My cellphone has a problem wherein when it's out in the cold for more than 5 minutes it goes from a 100% charge to a 4% charge and automatically turns off. I need to bring it in to get replaced or fixed.

Heaven forbid that happens to my Smart Gun when I need it.

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I suggest you don't buy one then.

Comparing a cell phone to RFID is like comparing an apple to a 18 wheeler.

That said, I do it currently trust any "smart gun" technology that I know of. But I'm not willing to say technology will never become reliable enough to win me over, I don't thing it's likely but at one time I didn't think surfing the web with a devise that can fit in pocket was likely either.

The future is, and its technology is unknown, what It could be is anyone's guess.

Yeesh. Smart guns again.

So exactly what purpose do they serve other than MAYBE preventing children from shooting themselves and how is that better than lockup?

Gonna have to be RFID as some of us don't have fingerprints. Understand? Please get that out there to the techno nerds.

The idea of smart gun technology is a dead end for limiting intentional violence as it does not prevent theft or help find criminals. It is sad that we worship technology to the point of not seeing the fail points.

SPOILER WARNING! Generic instructions for circumventing the "smart":

All smart guns use a sensing device to move a "control link" into position to either enable or disable the firearm. For a bright child or thief to use the firearm without authorization all that is necessary is to remove, turn off (remove batteries) or destroy the electronics and permanently fix the "control link" into the desired position.

And for the children I also have a concern that smart guns would encourage negligence as the owner might have too much confidence in the "smart" and neglect securing the firearm. I can imagine a mother leaving the firearm on a dresser feeling it is safe as it cannot be used without the enabling ring or bracelet that young Jennie has just found in the jewelry box.

Guy B. Meredith said:

Yeesh. Smart guns again.
So exactly what purpose do they serve other than MAYBE preventing children from shooting themselves and how is that better than lockup?

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The bad gun can't shoot you with your own gun.

I suppose they work OK in the rain and snow when wet?

I'll depend on other methods rather than depending on an iffy electronic. I just do not worship technology as the answer to all issues.

I'm assuming the solution will be RFID which can be taken with the firearm unless surgically embedded. Maybe a meet up with a machete wielding MS13 chap? Chop, chop. Fingers, hands...

Let me borrow a tinfoil hat for this post.

Can this technology be the road to defacto gun registration or expanded background checks?

Will the ring generically unlock every firearm of the same model or, will the ring and firearm be a specifically matched set?
Will that ring be registered to the owner with his data loaded in it? Will it be a ring that he must get matched to every firearm he owns? Who will do the matching?

Fingerprint type technology - If you sell, will you have to go to an FFL, or other legal entity, to have fingerprint reprogramming / transfer completed to match the new owner?

Technology isn't a scary thing until abilities are gained beyond the original intended purpose. Years ago, who knew that cellphones would be capably turned into listening devices or to track our movements through GPS?

Would it be so far off to think that mandatory gun registration can be slid into place through the technology being developed and tested by the .gov?

Ok, hat's off.

Guy Meredith is dead on; How long do you think it would take the average gunsmith to deactivate the system?

Gunsmith? You're kidding, right?

Just open the gun to see what piece is being positioned, move it to the desired position, drop in a bit of epoxy or use a punch to bash it into place permanently or whatever and you're good to go.

Oh yeah, use the punch on the electronics before closing the gun back up.

The whole idea of a smart gun is just plain stupid.

Hey, I'm a blue-steel and walnut kind of old-school gun guy, but I have to say that once they get the bugs worked out and the price add down to a reasonable level, I'd be fine with buying one. Safety is a good thing.

Aim1 said:

Gun owners want guns that are reliable and they need them to be, their lives may count on them. With guns that suddenly need batteries and have computers in them you're adding a whole lot of technology that could fail at the most inopertune time.

The current guns on the work are supposed to work off of fingerprints or a ring.

Sure that may work in a home. But what happens when you're carrying your gun outside of your home and need it for self-defense and its cold out and you're wearing gloves. Fingerprints won't work. Ring may or may not with gloves on. What happens when you forget your ring at home? Then you're in trouble. If you're outside and it's hot your hand maybe sweaty and the biometric scanner doesn't read your fingerprint.



These are just a few problems with Smart Guns that don't include failures on the gun's part at all. Just situation where Smart Guns won't work.

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I very much doubt that it even works reliably in the home.

Until this technology is reliable enough, durable enough, and inexpensive enough that active duty military uses it in combat, the secret service uses it on the presidential detail, and a significant number of major police departments us e it...all successfully...AND I am sure that I and only I can in any way use said technology to disable any of my own guns...I won't be going anywhere near it.

gyvel said:

Guy Meredith is dead on; How long do you think it would take the average gunsmith to deactivate the system?

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About as long as it takes the average gunsmith to write a computer program or hack into a secure government website?

Secret Service Detail should test it

I concur with the postings of most of the previous responders...the idea should be proven beyond all doubts by using the Presidential Secret Service Detail(s) as the test bed for discovering and eliminating all issues associated with smart gun technology before it could be offered to the general public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyvel
Guy Meredith is dead on; How long do you think it would take the average gunsmith to deactivate the system?

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About as long as it takes the average gunsmith to write a computer program or hack into a secure government website?

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While hacking would be one way to do it, They wouldn't necessarily have to find a technical/programming bypass, they would just have to find a physical bypass (or conversion).

I wouldn't expect to have to deal with electronic triggers as the ATF has long seen them as easily convertible to automatc (and with good reason). There are a few exceptions with target pistols I believe, but nothing semi-auto. That means you're likely looking at a system that (technically) interrupts the firing process without authentication, rather than a system that actually causes the firing process. That should make it easier to defeat.

They can't seem to get these guns to work reliably yet from a conceptual design standpoint. What happens when they try to harden the design to make it difficult for users to modify/deactivate the electronics?

Also I wouldn't expect these to have (at least in the beginning) heavy duty encryption.

Telekinesis said:

While hacking would be one way to do it, They wouldn't necessarily have to find a technical/programming bypass, they would just have to find a physical bypass (or conversion).

I wouldn't expect to have to deal with electronic triggers as the ATF has long seen them as easily convertible to automatc (and with good reason). There are a few exceptions with target pistols I believe, but nothing semi-auto. That means you're likely looking at a system that (technically) interrupts the firing process without authentication, rather than a system that actually causes the firing process. That should make it easier to defeat.

They can't seem to get these guns to work reliably yet from a conceptual design standpoint. What happens when they try to harden the design to make it difficult for users to modify/deactivate the electronics?

Also I wouldn't expect these to have (at least in the beginning) heavy duty encryption.

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Even if, in theory, this hypothetical device could be defeated relatively easily...so what?

Smart guns are being sold for the purpose of being safer at home and so you can't be shot with one.

BUT - the intent, and it's been discussed, in public, is to include circuitry to prevent using the gun within eyesight distance of LEO/Mil. Their transmitter signal, when received, disables the users override and renders the gun inoperable no matter what.

Therefor the .Gov wins every time. You don't have a legal gun to defend yourself. THAT was the whole point of a state law mandating all guns sold to include the technology. It's not about your fingerprint or RFID allowing you to shoot it, it's about the .Gov disabling your gun so that it cannot be used in their presence.

There will be no resistance.

Yeah, sure.

Tirod is exactly on target here. Government only wants one thing - more power over everything you do.

My thoughts exactly Tierod! If someone can turn the technology on, someone can turn the technology off. In my experience electronic things become obsolete and are designed to be disposable. How many 100 year old computers are still working today? I have no idea, but i do have several 100 year firearms that still chug along fine!

Like any other RF, a stronger signal in the area can interrupt an established link.

The military has done experiments to see how easy it is to jam control signals to unmanned aircraft. Keeping in mind that the encryption between those two points is encrypted. The finding was that the signal could be drowned out with tech from radio shack, causing UAVs to crash without direction. Not a far stretch to say it wouldn't be hard to do the same to a smart gun.