PSA levels of quality

Jackal said:

Freedom is better, if you want a stainless barrel. Ptac is cheaper. In my opinion, if I was stepping up to Freedom series, I'd opt for PSA's premium offerings instead for a little more $$$. For putting holes in paper and general blasting, there's little difference.

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Agreed.
PTAC and freedom lines are probably good to go, but for what you get for the extra money, I'd wait for the premium uppers to go on sale.
The last upper I bought from PSA was a premium upper with upgraded railed handguard on sale for $299, with a PSA hybrid rail.

Spending an extra $20 for the premium over the freedom line during sales gained me a $200 handguard, low pro front gas block, and an FN chrome lined barrel.

A good guess would be Wilson Combat. You might call and ask.

M

You can do better than PSA. They have always had inconsistent quality control on the stuff they sell. The market is so good right now I can't see a justification for buying a PSA upper when there are such great prices on Colt BCM DD Spikes etc.

You couldn't give me a PTAC upper for free. Well I guess you could, but I'd just hock it ASAP

Their customer service is also abysmal. If you can get a hold of them lol

Warp said:

You can do better than PSA. They have always had inconsistent quality control on the stuff they sell. The market is so good right now I can't see a justification for buying a PSA upper when there are such great prices on Colt BCM DD Spikes etc.

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How about a referral then? I understand 'you get what you pay for' but I would be very interested in alternatives to PSA for sourcing a value priced rifle kit. Any suggestions?

Warp said:

You can do better than PSA. They have always had inconsistent quality control on the stuff they sell. The market is so good right now I can't see a justification for buying a PSA upper when there are such great prices on Colt BCM DD Spikes etc.

You couldn't give me a PTAC upper for free. Well I guess you could, but I'd just hock it ASAP

Their customer service is also abysmal. If you can get a hold of them lol

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what quality issues have you had with PSA uppers?

Jlr2267 said:

what quality issues have you had with PSA uppers?

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I learn from the mistakes of others, which is why I haven't purchased something such as a PSA upper or a Kimber 1911. I have seen and read enough, however...and I have unfortunately dealt with their customer service before. Well actually no I haven't because they would never ever answer the phone, I had to call them out in their industry section on arfcom in the ongoing "post here and complain if you want PSA to acknowledge you exist as a customer" thread lol

il.bill said:

How about a referral then? I understand 'you get what you pay for' but I would be very interested in alternatives to PSA for sourcing a value priced rifle kit. Any suggestions?

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The market is flooded with well priced options. If you want cheap, PSA premium might well be the best cheap option...other than maybe a S&W M&P Sport.

Well the OP is about PSA quality levels after all. Not how you can spend more on a BCM or DD and get negligible or nonexistent benefits...and no, I am not talking about a roll mark or "peace of mind" as a benefit.

OP, as others have said, if you wait for the deals, you can get a premium for marginally more than freedom. If this is going to be your first/only AR i would stick with one of those two. PTAC I feel is like a gateway drug and you may find yourself wanting to upgrade before long. Any "upgrade" over the premium line would be a case study in diminishing returns.

I look at AR parts this way: If a part is in dimensional and material spec, it doesnt matter what rollmark is stamped on it. Low end AR's have come a loooong way in the last 10 years. Sure, my Ptac barrel will never shoot tiny groups on paper like my LaRue barrel, but tin cans, water jugs and steel plates sure cant tell the difference between the two.

I can't remember where I read it, but i remember the big PTAC "quality control" issue was surrounding a giant SNAFU in which they accidentally sent out about a dozen PTAC uppers as "new", that had actually been subjected to a 10k+ round torture test, each.

Vitamin G said:

I can't remember where I read it, but i remember the big PTAC "quality control" issue was surrounding a giant SNAFU in which they accidentally sent out about a dozen PTAC uppers as "new", that had actually been subjected to a 10k+ round torture test, each.

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I still don't think PSA has lived down sending out, what was it, I'm pretty sure it was mid length gas systems with carbine length gas tubes lol

I will say though, that S&W Sport II looks pretty darn nice for the $575ish it sells for.

The folks at Battlefield Las Vegas (machine gun rentals) have reported that PSA's chrome lined and melonite uppers as well as their bolts hold up very well to high round counts, some with over 20,000 rounds through them, and that they cannot tell a difference in performance or service life between them and top brands like LMT and Colt. That said, PSA does let some lemons slip by... judging by the amount of internet feedback it would seem to be at a higher rate than some of the more expensive brands. Also they don't have the world's greatest customer service.

I know and accept those things, and have been very pleased with all the 7 or so rifles I've built with PSA parts. I have been able to build more rifles than I otherwise would have, and several people I know own a good fighting rifle who otherwise wouldn't, because of their low prices.

Warp said:

I still don't think PSA has lived down sending out, what was it, I'm pretty sure it was mid length gas systems with carbine length gas tubes lol

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By palmettos admission, five years or so ago three rifles were out of an order of three hundred were shipped with carbine length gas systems by mistake due to mistakes and improper procedures made by a few employees in assembly and final inspection. The proper measures were promptly taken to ensure the problem was resolved, QC was overhauled, the employees in question were fired, and the rifles were fixed.

In other words, it was a software problem, not a hardware problem.

Harping over this is disingenuous and hypocritical unless you will also admit BCM has also sent out of spec receivers to customers and had to follow the same procedure. In those cases, the actual product was at fault.


"Lived down"....Maybe not to you, but they seem to be doing pretty well to me.

silicosys4 said:

By palmettos admission, five years or so ago three rifles were out of an order of three hundred were shipped with carbine length gas systems by mistake due to mistakes and improper procedures made by a few employees in assembly and final inspection. The proper measures were promptly taken to ensure the problem was resolved, QC was overhauled, the employees in question were fired, and the rifles were fixed.

In other words, it was a software problem, not a hardware problem.

Harping over this is disingenuous and hypocritical unless you will also admit BCM has also sent out of spec receivers to customers and had to follow the same procedure. In those cases, the actual product was at fault.


"Lived down"....Maybe not to you, but they seem to be doing pretty well to me.

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The software problem continues and did not go away 5 years ago. Both QC and CS. That's the thing. I'm not even sure they learned how to stake gas keys yet

As an actual PSA owner I cannot report any issues. Seems to work just the same as any other ar I have used. I get a feeling most guys knocking the PSA line have no experience with it and rush to make judgement based on the lower price tag. It is a good value for what it is.

ldlfh7 said:

As an actual PSA owner I cannot report any issues. Seems to work just the same as any other ar I have used. I get a feeling most guys knocking the PSA line have no experience with it and rush to make judgement based on the lower price tag. It is a good value for what it is.

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Most people knocking PSA have a fair amount of confirmation bias going on. I think it was jackal who had it right: in spec parts properly assembled are in spec parts properly assembled. I have actually heard people say that the high end brands bring "intangible" qualities to the rifle that somehow make them better.

There's also selection bias in what you read online. Let's face it, PSA rose in prominence during the internet/gun forum era. Most people that shopped PSA (especially early on) probably heard about them through a gun forum online. So yeah, if you had an issue with your rifle, you surely posted about it. The same can't be said for the guy that gets his AR from cabelas or gander.

I won't dispute that they had growing pains and their CS still isn't the best. But their rifles are just as good as the next guys.

FWIW, I've had reason to call PSA customer service twice in the last two months and in both cases they responded promptly and with complete satisfaction on my part.

The half dozen kits I ordered were delivered in a reasonable time frame ~2 weeks, in spite of the seeming "banic" buying.

Only issues I had (posted earlier in this thread) were resolved quickly and without dispute on their part. The buffer tubes just arrived today--one week later.

M

I've been buying from PSA for 5-6 years. My ONLY gripe was the slow shipping over the years and even that is improving. It's hard to dislike a company that has really low prices and are improving.

Warp said:

The software problem continues and did not go away 5 years ago. Both QC and CS. That's the thing. I'm not even sure they learned how to stake gas keys yet

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You have admitted to having no personal experience with PSA uppers, yet continue to make disparaging remarks about them. Don't you think it's a bit unfair to just regurgitate negative commentary you read on the internet... on topics of which you have no personal experience?

We All Had To Have A First Time

I ordered a complete upper from PSA two weeks ago. Placed the order on a Fri, arrived the following Thur. PDQ if you ask me.

You have to watch their "Daily Deals" to see the good stuff. They update the front page regularly. By the way, the polished trigger group they have for $29.99 is a good deal if you want something significantly better than 'milspec', but don't want to spend a ton. I wouldn't buy it alone due to shipping cost, but it's a nice add-on if ordering something else.

Not at all impressed by BCM products, nor do I understand the fawning

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I put a BCM charging handle on my Armalite AR and it has transformed it into the greatest rifle I've ever seen! It also cures male pattern baldness, reduces belly fat and restores your....well, you get the idea.