30-06 or 300 WM? Let's hear it...

If you are going to carry a 26 barrel go with the 300 win mag.

When going to hunt Elk IMHO it is wise to use a 180 grn or heavier bullet.

My elk rifle is a Savage 116, with two barrels, 338 win mag and a 300 win mag.

I think I'd reserve a .300WM for launching 215+ grain bullets at speeds exceeding a 30-06's capabilities. For a bullet of 180 grains, just use a 30-06. With a 26" barrel and modern powders, you will be able to push it hard enough for the job at hand, with the added benefit of less recoil and fuss.

There is a thread on SH about this (you may be the same guy), there is some good info there as well. Also, google Gerhman Slalzarr (spelling?), he has some great data using the 30-06 and heavy projectiles.

IMHO you can't go wrong with either. I like the .30-06, but mostly because it is ubiquitous...but I imagine where you'd go for elk so would the WM so that can't be a bad idea. And with the larger grains the extra umph is great. But at that level the recoil doesn't bother me... Normal hunting positions the .338 WM isn't to bad...from the bench...another story...
Greg

Being forced to use copper makes things more difficult. I'd normally suggest a 200-215 gr high BC conventional lead bullet in either.

With the best loads a 30-06 is a 500-600 yard elk killer and can be had in a lighter rifle. You can do that with a 22" barrel and a gun weighing under 8 lbs all up and ready to hunt.

A 300 WM will shoot the same bullets faster and add 100-150 yards to the effective range, but you'll need 26" of barrel to get those speeds and a much heavier rifle.

Most people can't shoot well enough to take advantage of either, so with conventional bullets even a 308 is more than enough.

But copper bullets need to impact at much faster speeds in order to expand. And you don't need the bullet weight to get excellent penetration. I'd drop down to a 150-165 gr copper bullet. Either of those is still fast enough at 500 yards to expand, the 180 gr copper bullets are too slow at 500 yards to reliably expand. Penetration will be the same with either of those 3 bullet weights. Shooting copper of any weight pretty much limits range to about 500 yards before performance becomes a problem. But that is farther than most can shoot anyway.

If I were building the perfect high country big game rifle I'd choose 300 WSM. It shoots the same bullets 200-300 fps faster than 30-06 and about 50 fps slower than 300 WM. Recoil is almost exactly 1/2 way between 30-06 and 300 WM if all 3 weigh the same, or exactly the same as 300 WM in a rifle 1/2 lb lighter. You can have it in a much lighter, more compact rifle and only need 22-24" of barrel to work.

You'll place a given bullet more precisely with the '06 than the 300. It has less recoil while the bullet goes through the barrel. And the '06 is easier to reload for best accuracy; they're equal with new cases.

The 300 WSM is a better choice than the 300 Win Mag if you want more muzzle velocity than the '06 and it's as easy to reload for best accuracy. It'll be harder to shoot precisely, but such is life in the compromises involved.

And if you ever really need to, you can buy a box of .30-'06 cartridges pretty much anywhere.

My 300 wsm puts out 180 ttsx copper bullets at 3200fps from a 24 inch barrel. I would not go with the 06 if you want 180 g bullets.

There's no way I would go on a high country elk hunt with a 26 inch barrel. Most people who hunt with rifles that long and that heavy haul them around on a 4 wheeler or in the cab of a truck. When they hunt on foot they don't get very far from the vehicle. I haven't been on a high country elk hunt in several years but if I was going again I would be using a 30-06 with a 22 inch barrel where the whole set-up weighs less than 8.5 pounds.

I'd like to know the powder and weight along with measured psi numbers that shoots 180's out of a 24" 300 WSM barrel at 3200 fps. Load data with pressures about 64K psi show velocities in the upper 2900's. SAAMI specs say 2960 fps at 65K psi for 180's in a 24" test barrel.

A 26" barrel can be the same weight as a 22 inch one and still be just as safe and accurate.

If I was building a gun for elk, I'd go with .300 Win. Mag. I'd settle for a .30-06 and handload for elk, if I had to. I had the same dilemma for an upcoming moose hunt once. I had a Remington 742 in .30-06, but rather serendipitously, a nice Ruger M77 in .300 win. Mag. fell into my lap for a deal I couldn't pass up, so that's what I carried. My Dad ended up shooting a bull on our tag, with his Sako in .300 WIn. Mag.

Im running a 26" 1:9 Douglas Match barrel in 30-06.. The 208/210 vld-style bullets seem to the tops for this gun at 500 yards. I start running into pressure signs at 2450 and not just in the case. I can feel those in my teeth.. If my end result was to push 200gr + pills into large game, I would have chose the 300..

.30-'06 is plenty, I've taken a couple cow elk with a 6.5x55. You poke a hole in their lungs and they're going to die. A .300 WM has a lot more recoil but not that much more punch. The .30-'06 will take anything in North America and has cheap, easily available ammo. I agree with the poster above, and would say most hunters probably have no business taking a shot over 300 yds. YMMV.

I prefer a 24" barrel in a heavier rifle, to me it is much easier to shoot well.

Your .300WSM is putting out 180gr bullets at greater velocity than a .300 Weatherby with a 26" barrel?

Click to expand...

Yes it does.

I'd like to know the powder and weight along with measured psi numbers that shoots 180's out of a 24" 300 WSM barrel at 3200 fps. Load data with pressures about 64K psi show velocities in the upper 2900's. SAAMI specs say 2960 fps at 65K psi for 180's in a 24" test barrel.

Click to expand...

I obviously do not have any pressures to tell you. I just know the superformance powder is something special in that cartridge. It gives about 150 fps more than rl 17. I fully understand that if it is not in a reloading manual then it must be unsafe and/or impossible. My win mag will not get close to this velocity with 7 g more powder out of a rem700, 24 inch barrel.

View attachment 740742

Considering all the variables involved in loading and and testing a given cartridge for muzzle velocity for a given bullet will easily have a 200 fps spread in average fps for a given powder across all the different testing methods, I think when those variables are reduced to as close to zero as possible, muzzle velocity average fps will go up with case capacity.

Capacity (in grains of water) for some 30 caliber cartridges are about:

70 for the .30-06
80 for the .300 Win Short Mag
90 for the .300 Win Mag
100 for the .300 Wby Mag
110 for the .300 Rem Ult Mag

Few people know what all those variables are. Some of the biggest variables are across what's used to measure (estimate?) peak (or average} pressure which has a big effect on muzzle velocity.

I'm not an elk hunter but three of my biddies are and they go to Colorado each November. The calibers they use: 308, 30-06 and 300 Wby Mag. They've all gotten their elk. And those critters didn't seem to notice which caliber brought them down.

300 wm

Fan of the 30-06 here. Good for Elk, deer, antelope and coyote. Probably moose but the one moose I shot was with a 375H&H.

Dakota 1911,
What is that lever gun? Very nice!

Greg

Most folks I know hunt elk with 30-06 or 270. I know a few folks who use 7mm Mag and two who use 300 mags of some sort. The folks who shoot the 300 magnums either have a brake or hate to shoot it.

Elk seldom hang out near the road. Most of the time I've seen elk it's been way back off of the road. I use a 22" barreled 30-06 and I put in about 10 miles per day and 2000-5000 vertical feet when hunting elk.

I only ever passed up one shot due to range. Most of the time I see elk within 200 yards. (OR A 1/2 MILE OR MORE)

Of the people I know who hunt elk, the most successful hunters use 30-06 or 7mm mag.