(308) Budget 1500

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

Good evening,

Just joined the forums tonight and reason being needed to find a solid gun community. I am living in south Florida and currently a first officer aboard private yachts.

My Question - A solid semi auto rifle with a 308 caliber something that will not fail "fixing a jam ext" i understand this is unavoidable to extent just a solid platform.

My Budget - Rifle 1500-2000 Optic 500-800

My Issue - I am a AK 47 fanboy have 2 and have done plenty of mods ext to them and need a long range rifle with same reliability. I was looking at the G3 HK 5,000 is to much of a price tag. Then i moved on down to a SCAR 17 which i have heard is solid and proven. My main problem is do i really pay another 1000$ for the SCAR 17 or pick up an AR10 or similar rifle. Looking at a gun with a range of 400-800 yards and be able to group. I am completely green when it comes to the AR platform question is do i go 556 or 308.

I currently am on Gun Brokers and browsing but i would like some peoples opinions on my questions and for people to swing me in the right direction given the information above.

Thanks for reading :neener:

P.B.Walsh · Feb 25, 2016

Cool job, didn't even know that was a thing!

Anyways, most any reputable AR-10 manufacture (DPMS pattern accepting thei magazine profile) will do what you need to do for < $1500.

If you're like me, then you are looking at M1A rifles. In that price range, get the best Springfield Armory rifle you can buy (their Scout Squad is my favorite) and a Basset/ARMS/Saddlak scope mount.

Both these options are $1500 +/- $200.

Optic? Lotta good ones out there, look at the SWFA 3-9 ($600), SWFA 3-15 ($700), a Vortex PST (~$800 depending on model), and the Burris XTR2 ($900). Additionally, look at these scopes used. Also, a new company called Athlon optics seems to be making good headway in this price range of the market with feature loaded optics.

Anyways, that's a pretty solid budget to get you started.

Panzerschwein · Feb 25, 2016

Do yourself a favor and buy a PTR-91 GI. Here is mine:

Extremely reliable and rugged, very accurate. Would make a perfect gun to carry on a yacht to dissuade pirates or boarders. 20 round magazines can be had for as low as $4 now, parts are cheap and available, there are numerous accessories, they are just awesome guns, and made in the USA... oh, and you can find them for about $800-$900. They are unbeatable for that price IMHO.

http://www.ptr91.com/

MachIVshooter · Feb 25, 2016

My Question - A solid semi auto rifle with a 308 caliber something that will not leave me stranded.

Are you riding your rifle?

In all seriousness, your requirements dictate an AR pattern rifle. Nothing else in your budget will touch them for performance, especially in the accuracy department. And you can put together a pretty nice .308 AR for $1,500-$2,000. I put this critter together for about $1,800, including the ATN X-sight optic and 3 lb Black Rain trigger:

(sorry. Phone pic)

I found some really good deals, so it'd cost you a little more to do it right now in a hurry, but still well within your budget.

I have an FAL and love it, but it's not even in the same league accuracy wise. Same goes for my G3, which is further hampered in it's ranking by crappy ergonomics, crappier trigger, and the fluted chamber destroying brass.

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

P.B.Walsh, thank you for your response. Yes i move yachts for billionaires and trust me the boats have plenty of guns aboard we are based primarily east coast. Its a small industry that pays very well. At 24 and 4 years into it i currently have my 500 Ton USCG captains license. Working my way to a cruise ship license "unlimited tonnage" a good 10 years down the road "generate seatime ext". seeing these new yachts are moving into the 600+ foot range.

M1A is a solid rifle i have always been a fan. The DPMS is a solid choice as well that is actually what i was looking at tonight, the AR 10 DPMS Rifle 7.62 x 51 .308 Win Quad Rail was just looking to expand maybe some untouched areas looking at pros and cons of the M1A right now. Seems to be more of a solid gun. Optics are allot to look into but thank you for showing me your recommendations.

Thanks again.

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

Cooldill, looking into the rifle now the PTR-91 GI looks like the G3 platform.

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

MachIVshooter said:
Are you riding your rifle?

In all seriousness, your requirements dictate an AR pattern rifle. Nothing else in your budget will touch them for performance, especially in the accuracy department. And you can put together a pretty nice .308 AR for $1,500-$2,000. I put this critter together for about $1,800, including the ATN X-sight optic and 3 lb Black Rain trigger:

(sorry. Phone pic)

I found some really good deals, so it'd cost you a little more to do it right now in a hurry, but still well within your budget.

I have an FAL and love it, but it's not even in the same league accuracy wise. Same goes for my G3, which is further hampered in it's ranking by crappy ergonomics, crappier trigger, and the fluted chamber destroying brass.

I fixed the above "stranded comment" haha, negative on riding it into battle. I am looking into a AR setup now its a decent purchase for weighing in everyone's comments and personal opinions.

MachIVshooter · Feb 25, 2016

looking at pros and cons of the M1A right now. Seems to be more of a solid gun.

What do you mean by "solid"? If you mean heavier, then yes. By about a pound and a half in similar trim. If you mean more durable, then no. the M1A is a robust weapon, for sure, but the AR gives up nothing in that department. The AR is also far more user serviceable. Lastly, a pretty average .308 AR is likely to be just as accurate as a top shelf NM M1A. Standard M1A? Forget it. They're generally ~2.5 MOA. The .308 AR I pictured above runs about 2 MOA with ball ammo, and hovers around 1 MOA with match grade. I have not yet tailored handloads to really wring out the potential, but I'm certain consistent sub-MOA is possible, given what I've been able to do so far. And that's not really a high-end AR; it was a $730 PSA 18" rifle kit with the MI SSK15 handguard, with one of my custom titanium compensators hanging out on the end of the 18" tube. It's built on an Ares signature billet lower, and I ditched the M4 furniture in the kit in favor of a Magpul ACS stock and a UTG "sniper" grip.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-18-mid-length-308-win-1-10-ssk15-rifle-kit.html

Higher quality pic taken before the Ti comp and ATN optic:

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

MachIVshooter said:
What do you mean by "solid"? If you mean heavier, then yes. By about a pound and a half in similar trim. If you mean more durable, then no. the M1A is a robust weapon, for sure, but the AR gives up nothing in that department. The AR is also far more user serviceable. Lastly, a pretty average .308 AR is likely to be just as accurate as a top shelf NM M1A. Standard M1A? Forget it. They're generally ~2.5 MOA. The .308 AR I pictured above runs about 2 MOA with ball ammo, and hovers around 1 MOA with match grade. I have not yet tailored handloads to really wring out the potential, but I'm certain consistent sub-MOA is possible, given what I've been able to do so far. And that's not really a high-end AR; it was a $730 PSA 18" rifle kit with the MI SSK15 handguard, with one of my custom titanium compensators hanging out on the end of the 18" tube. It's built on an Ares signature billet lower, and I ditched the M4 furniture in the kit in favor of a Magpul ACS stock and a UTG "sniper" grip.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-18-mid-length-308-win-1-10-ssk15-rifle-kit.html

I seem to be failing in terminology tonight i meant as a solid "battle rifle" the M1A seems to actually not be that accurate "to extent" multiple forums reviews i am reading "has to top shelf". AR10 seems to simply be coming back to the top of the list. In that price range the DPMS AR seems to be a great option.

MachIVshooter · Feb 25, 2016

In that price range the DPMS AR seems to be a great option.

If you're looking to buy an assembled rifle, yeah, gonna be tough to beat DPMS for the money, although you should give Armalite a look before committing.

https://armalite.com/product-category/complete-firearms/ar-10/

The Armalite receiver design is superior to the DPMS pattern, although the benefits of the rear web are probably dubious for most users; it's not like DPMS pattern lowers are snapping at the receiver extension housing.

However, the value in the PSA kits is second to none. You'll have to watch close, as they run out of stock very quickly lately, but they're worth the wait if you want the best bang for your buck. Several friends of mine have also built .308 ARs with PSA uppers or kits, and all have been very satisfied.

In truth, if money were no object, I'd have started with another Armalite AR-10 (had an A2 carbine). But I'd have spent near twice as much building it out to what the one pictured above is.

Modeerf · Feb 25, 2016

MachIVshooter said:
If you're looking to buy an assembled rifle, yeah, gonna be tough to beat DPMS for the money, although you should give Armalite a look before committing.

https://armalite.com/product-category/complete-firearms/ar-10/

The Armalite receiver design is superior to the DPMS pattern, although the benefits of the rear web are probably dubious for most users; it's not like DPMS pattern lowers are snapping at the receiver extension housing.

However, the value in the PSA kits is second to none. You'll have to watch close, as they run out of stock very quickly lately, but they're worth the wait if you want the best bang for your buck. Several friends of mine have also built .308 ARs with PSA uppers or kits, and all have been very satisfied.

In truth, if money were no object, I'd have started with another Armalite AR-10 (had an A2 carbine). But I'd have spent near twice as much building it out to what the one pictured above is.

Armalight makes some seriously nice ARs that is for sure. I will have to study the AR platform more to understand reason behind the almost double the price value. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. Thanks for the help!

Driftertank · Feb 26, 2016

I own a PTR-91F. It is heavy. Pretty accurate. Some ergonomic issues. No last-round hold-open, hard on brass. Many people dont like the recoil impulse in stock trim. Trigger kinda sucks, i have a sweetened up trigger and it's still not as nice as the NM trigger in my AR15. Kinda hard to scope. PTR-91is based on the HK91 (G3) rifle, but American made. I like mine alot, but not sure it's what i would pick if i had to start over.

M1A is a very nice rifle. With the right load, it is just as accurate as my PTR. Cold shots don't seem terribly consistent, in my experience. Groups settle in as it warms up. Also kind of hard to scope. Factory mags are expensive, aftermarket can be iffy; look into CheckMate mags.

FAL is another option. A good one is just as reliable as any AK. Good ones aren't as common these days as they used to be. Two different patterns, inch and metric. Mags can be tough to find. Hard to scope, but near top of the list for dependability.

AR-10/DPMS LR308, etc....definitely top of the list for out-of-the-box accuracy, ease of optic mounting, modularity and aftermarket support. Very reliable, but only if properly cared for. Couple pitfalls, there are more than one style. DPMS pattern is more common, easy to get mags for. Unlike AR15s, there was never a milspec standard, so some fiddling may be required to be completely reliable depending on ammo, mags, aftermarket parts. Potentially the lightest of the .308 autos.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

Driftertank said:
I own a PTR-91F. It is heavy. Pretty accurate. Some ergonomic issues. No last-round hold-open, hard on brass. Many people dont like the recoil impulse in stock trim. Trigger kinda sucks, i have a sweetened up trigger and it's still not as nice as the NM trigger in my AR15. Kinda hard to scope. PTR-91is based on the HK91 (G3) rifle, but American made. I like mine alot, but not sure it's what i would pick if i had to start over.

M1A is a very nice rifle. With the right load, it is just as accurate as my PTR. Cold shots don't seem terribly consistent, in my experience. Groups settle in as it warms up. Also kind of hard to scope. Factory mags are expensive, aftermarket can be iffy; look into CheckMate mags.

FAL is another option. A good one is just as reliable as any AK. Good ones aren't as common these days as they used to be. Two different patterns, inch and metric. Mags can be tough to find. Hard to scope, but near top of the list for dependability.

AR-10/DPMS LR308, etc....definitely top of the list for out-of-the-box accuracy, ease of optic mounting, modularity and aftermarket support. Very reliable, but only if properly cared for. Couple pitfalls, there are more than one style. DPMS pattern is more common, easy to get mags for. Unlike AR15s, there was never a milspec standard, so some fiddling may be required to be completely reliable depending on ammo, mags, aftermarket parts. Potentially the lightest of the .308 autos.

Thanks for reply, its coming down to the FAL or AR10DPMS looking at configurations too PTR-91F is nice but like you said out of the box accuracy its hard to beat the AR or FAL doing my research today more into the FAL.

Driftertank · Feb 26, 2016

FAL is generally bottom of the heap, accuracy wise. 2-3 MOA is a good shooter.

Not sure if your armament quest is a actually job related, or you just mentioned it as a but about yourself. If you're shopping as a means to provide maritime security, i think my top choices if I were in your position would be either a DPMS pattern AR308 in 18-20" medium barrel with freefloat handguard and adjustable carbine stock, or an M1A Scout Squad in a USGI fiberglass stock, or save up a little more and drop it in an Vltor Modstock chassis.

Either of those would provide accurate volume fire out to 600-800yds without being to long or heavy to store unobtrusively or wield effectively at closer range.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

Driftertank said:
FAL is generally bottom of the heap, accuracy wise. 2-3 MOA is a good shooter.

Not sure if your armament quest is a actually job related, or you just mentioned it as a but about yourself. If you're shopping as a means to provide maritime security, i think my top choices if I were in your position would be either a DPMS pattern AR308 in 18-20" medium barrel with freefloat handguard and adjustable carbine stock, or an M1A Scout Squad in a USGI fiberglass stock, or save up a little more and drop it in an Vltor Modstock chassis.

Either of those would provide accurate volume fire out to 600-800yds without being to long or heavy to store unobtrusively or wield effectively at closer range.

This would not be work related unless we went to the Mediterranean which we would carry anything and everything we could legally have on board. Still doing research into everything you have recommended. The DPMS AR308 is on top of list now.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

Driftertank said:
FAL is generally bottom of the heap, accuracy wise. 2-3 MOA is a good shooter.

Not sure if your armament quest is a actually job related, or you just mentioned it as a but about yourself. If you're shopping as a means to provide maritime security, i think my top choices if I were in your position would be either a DPMS pattern AR308 in 18-20" medium barrel with freefloat handguard and adjustable carbine stock, or an M1A Scout Squad in a USGI fiberglass stock, or save up a little more and drop it in an Vltor Modstock chassis.

Either of those would provide accurate volume fire out to 600-800yds without being to long or heavy to store unobtrusively or wield effectively at closer range.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/LR-308_ep_124-1.html

Thoughts?

MachIVshooter · Feb 26, 2016

FAL is generally bottom of the heap, accuracy wise. 2-3 MOA is a good shooter.

IME, the FAL, M1A and G3/CETME are pretty equal. All will run about 2.5-4 MOA in standard trim. All 3 can be accurized, of course, but it ain't cheap.

The AR is the exception, not the rule as semi-auto battle rifle accuracy goes. The SCAR, modeled heavily after the AR in terms of things that affect accuracy, is the nearest competitor, but really only compares favorably with pretty "standard" .308 AR's, losing out by a decent margin to those built for accuracy.

MachIVshooter · Feb 26, 2016

http://www.dpmsinc.com/LR-308_ep_124-1.html

Thoughts?

I'm not a fan of slick side uppers, but that's a lot of rifle for the money if you want to buy a complete firearm. You can still build something nicer for less, though.

.375 · Feb 26, 2016

If you're an AK guy, get an AK. VEPR in .308

Reloadron · Feb 26, 2016

Budget and all things considered? Me? I would be going with a AR-10 type rifle. I happen to have a 20 plus year old Armalite AR-10T but any of the AR-10 rifles out there would be a good choice. Having both the AR-10 and a M1A and liking both based on your post I would go with the AR-10. I would also go with the 308 Winchester over the 223 Remington. However, that is strictly my choosing based on what I happen to like. There is no shortage of .308 Winchester rifles out there to choose from depending on your taste in a rifle.

Just My Take
Ron

epwrangler · Feb 26, 2016

Buy the M&P 10. They are light, accurate and reasonable price. You will be well prepared to repel borders.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

.375 said:
If you're an AK guy, get an AK. VEPR in .308

I had no idea these guns even existed, all the more reason i joined these forums. Doing my research into the gun now.

epwrangler · Feb 26, 2016

I own a PA10. 18 inch stainless. Works great.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

MachIVshooter said:
I'm not a fan of slick side uppers, but that's a lot of rifle for the money if you want to buy a complete firearm. You can still build something nicer for less, though.

I have no idea what i would be getting into if i built my own, i will do my research. If you have recommendations on what you would purchase building your own with a 1500 budget? Optic of course will be bought in a few months.

Modeerf · Feb 26, 2016

epwrangler said:
Buy the M&P 10. They are light, accurate and reasonable price. You will be well prepared to repel borders.

Looking into, its a very solid gun, my thoughts i am sure its easy but say in a tactical situation my scope breaks and i need iron sites i can add onto these rails correct?

(308) Budget 1500

Member

Member

member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Contributing Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads