Casting for .45 Colt

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Looks like I have a lot more to think about than what mold to buy.

I will definitely be using this Rossi for plinking and hunting (if my buddy will let me fill a couple of his twenty tags), from what I've been reading the chamber on it is rated at or above 50,000+cup so ruger only loads shouldn't be a problem.

.45c seems to be a very interesting cartridge to reload for, I'm researching the powders that can be used and I was quite surprised by the list.

Paddy, I'm considering the sbr stamp and stock, someday i'll take the plunge.

Correct me if I'm wrong everyone but to push the heavier bullets i'll need a slower powder, all I have on hand is SR7625, SR4756 and IMR PB. I'm looking for universal, 700X, Trailboss, green dot, blue dot and quite a few others locally but as of yet I haven't run across anything. GAH!

I think I need to slow down and really think through a few choices now, there's a powder coating place right around the corner from me, I,ll swing by there and see if I can get my hands on pc. There's a place I can buy cast bullets here , though I'm afraid to see the prices for their "premium match grade" bullets, or ill make a small purchase online of a few different weights to start. I'll try both pc and lube and see which one works better for me.

Will I still need to use gas checks if I powder coat?

The bullets I have laying around here are hornady frontier lead .452 230gr lrn, the bearing surface is knurled, I think these are for cowboy loads. Correct me if I'm wrong but I should keep these subsonic? My only intention for these are plinking anyway.
 
The 45 colt cases are not designed to handle the high pressure. If you want to run a high pressure round you need to move to the 44 magnum or the 454 casull.
Use the handgun data for developing your loads, what will be happening is due to the lack of the cylinder gap and the longer barrel the velocity from your rifle will be about 150 fps faster using unique and similar powders and 250 fps +- when using bludot,2400 , and as much as 300 fps when using H110, 4198 etc.
But at most you'll only be able to safely get a 250 gr bullet to 1600 fps.. and more loads will run 12-1300.
 
1, if I may be so forward,

You appear to be working all of the options well.

If I may add some distractions.
I am lazy! For normal, non specialized loadings, plain old lead and lubed bullets are wonderful. Try a few types before you jump in with both feet. This weekend there is a big gun show up at the airport. Look for some samples there. I prefer the 250 grain round nose flat points to play with and the Keith type for hunting. Both are available from Missouri Bullet and it is not all that far to drive down to Kingsville from KC. (Place your order on-line with local pick-up.)

Casting. Yep, I do it and it has it's place. After you have picked what your Rossi likes, finding a mold isn't hard, getting one is not so easy. Those 5 sided hollow point jobs are neet... someday I'll have one.

Lube, powder coating and sizing.
I like and use lubed bullets, the ones I buy. Most of what I cast gets a coating of polyester. Harbor Freight has there 'RED' powder and it works well, is cheap and is close. I do find it goes on, for me, a little thicker. There are many sources for powders. I don't like thin spots, so I go with clear. I use the 'Shake-n-bake' process. Powder coating gives much less smoke, no lube to burn off, and no leading ever. LEE push though sizing dies are inexpensive and work well. (I'm weird and size after casting and after coating. Not needed but I do it anyway.) Get a sizing die the is a little over your bore size for best fit/seal.

The .45 Colt round is fully capable for hunting anything around local in the old black powder level loads. Moving up in velocity does flatten the trajectory, that is a plus. But also will increase passing through the game and into the what ever on the far side. Cast softer lead (it will make the bullet heavier) for a little more expansion in the target. This is where powder coating shines.

Now I have babbled too much. Load with care.
 
Thank you Don,

I know your advice is sound, I don't really have a desire to go beyond anything listed in the manuals, if I do decide to try to load for deer ill follow your advice and use a stronger case and work up a load with help here.

Which case would be better to use with the Rossi the .44 or the .454?
 
thank you Old Papas,
You all have given me much to think about, that's why I love THR!
My first purchase will be a sizing die, a cast bullet manual and some cast bullets, I'll think everything else thru before I go any further than that.
 
1,

I think common sense and recoil is a bigger concern with the Rossi than brass strength.

From STARLINE BRASS,
"45 Colt Brass. Originally designed for use with blackpowder, the .45 Colt is one of the most powerful, commonly available handgun cartridges when loaded with smokeless powder. Our .45 Colt brass has been tested to .44 Magnum pressures in gun systems suitable for such loads."

Please start with the level one loads before moving up to level two or greater. The 92 action is well capable of the heavy loadings but after a point, it is just 'why'?
If the blackpowder loading would shoot through a horse... The deer around here aren't going to be a problem.
 
1TwistedGimp said:
Thank you Don,

I know your advice is sound, I don't really have a desire to go beyond anything listed in the manuals, if I do decide to try to load for deer ill follow your advice and use a stronger case and work up a load with help here.

Which case would be better to use with the Rossi the .44 or the .454?
Click to expand...
Don't misunderstand the cartridge here. The 45 colt in it's standard factory load ( not the low velocity cas crap) is fully capable of killing any member of the deer family on the continent.
When you reload the cartridge in a rifle you up the so called killing power by quite a bit, but in reality the ballistics of the 45 colt from a rifle will be relatively equal to most anything you can sanely run from a 44 magnum revolver.
The 45 colt survived the last 140 years or so because it is a very efficient and deadly killer.. and that was before folks discovered they could amp it up a bit.
 
The idea that .45colt cases are weak is false. It goes back to the old "balloon head" cases of the 1800's. Those haven't been made in 100yrs.
Recent modern .45colt cases from the last 50yrs are every bit as strong as .44mag cases.
However, guns perhaps not so.
I now only have a S&W 625 Mountain Gun and a Winchester M95 Trails End Legacy w/24" bbl.
l load just hot enough to keep the cases obturated in the rifle to prevent blow-back into the action, which soot's the cases and gunks the action. This also makes the loads near the top end for the 'Smith.
A 255gr Lee FRN at 1,200 fps from the rifle (8.2gr Universal, 9.0gr Unique) will completely penetrate a whitetail deer length-wise. Seen/done it several times.
My favorite load from the S&W is 6.0gr of RedDot under the RCBS 270-SAA SWC. Runs about 800fps and does all you'd want a large bore handgun to do.
No need to go "thermonuclear"!
A .44 "might expand, -( it's actually a .43!) But the .45 never shrinks!
 
OldPapps, Don, GooseGestapo,

I have been reading up on the .45c over the last few days and felt it would serve the purpose of taking deer out to 50 yards without trying to turn it into a cannon. I have no desire to reload anything at or anywhere near dangerous levels. I think a 255gr - 300gr moving at 1100fps should be plenty to take deer within 50yrds, if I can't make that happen ill just use the .308. I may have given the wrong impression when I spoke about heavy hitters and 50,000cup. I just meant heavier bullets for deer and that I could load at the high end of the manuals and feel confident that the Rossi is well suited to take it. 99% of my loads will be plinking rounds, I'm not very adventurous when it comes to reloading, I've only been reloading for about 3 years and have found the manuals I have to cover all of my needs. Someday down the road I might feel differently but I don't have the knowledge base to at this point to feel comfortable coloring outside the lines.

I truly appreciate all the advice I receive here, I have learned so much from you guys over the years. I still consider myself a noob even after 3 years of reloading thousands of rounds and having them all go bang instead of BOOM! But then I learned most of what I know from good people here on THR. I feel confident reloading for 9mm, .40, and .380 but I don't mind admitting that I'm ignorant about .45c and coming here to try to change that. I know you guys will always do the best you can to shoot me straight.

There's a lot of great advice in this thread, I just need to slow down and absorb it and learn more about lubing vs powder coating, resizing, casting, gas checks... etc.

Can anyone tell me why the cowboy bullets I have are knurled on the bearing surface? I'm sure there's a reason but I can't seem to find any info as to the purpose of it. My FIL is a machinist/diesel mechanic and explained/showed me how he does it and that it makes the diameter greater. I made an awesome cheater bar at his shop on the lathe and knurled the end for better grip but I can't quite grasp why it would be done on a bullet.

1TG
 
The only reason I can think of for knurling those bullets is that the knurling will hold that dry graphite lube they put on them better than a slick sided bullet.
 
1TwistedGimp; first off, I haven't read this entire thread, so what I'm about to say might be old news.
The very first thing you need to do is slug you barrel. If you've done that then you know the bore diameter as well as the size of bullet you need to be shooting( 1 to 2 thousandths over the slugged dimension. The Rossi's seem to be fairly tight and you can probably get by using a standard "45 caliber" cast bullet which is nominally .452". If you cast your own, I do, Lee, Lyman, NOE, and others have just what you need. I powdercoat all mine and Leading ISN'T a problem. Good Luck!
 
CatManDo,

I do need to slug the barrel, as soon as I learn how. I have heard about it but never looked into the process cause I have never reloaded for rifle. I will read up on the process and do that before I make any mold or sizing die purchases. Thank you for the advice!

1TG
 
Shooting it off hand at anything you want to kill will probably not be very fun. They are pretty hard to shoot straight without the sbr mod. Also the front sight on these is notoriously wrong and much too short, so you may need to change that out as well.
 
Paddy,

I have heard that about the front sight, in fact the FIL gave it to me cause he can't shoot it accurately at all. I will be changing the front sight soon. He also refuses to shoot reloads cause of a couple duds he got the only time he ever bought any. Once I get my process down for .45c I'll take him to the range and show him mine are ok, I'm seriously OCD when it comes to reloading, I measure everything and I mean everything 3 times. I am not trying to turn out 1000 rounds a sitting though, I produce around 100 at a time and I truly enjoy every minute at the bench. When I reload I'm focusing on making high quality dependable ammunition. I keep a log of everything I do and mark all my ammo for inspection after firing. That is my take on this hobby at this point, I know others can reload faster and don't bother with measuring everything like I do but I take great pleasure in doing it the way I do. Hopefully I can change the FIL's mind about reloads.

1TG
 
It's a fun piece and a fun cartridge to reload. I recently watched some utube vids on "slicking up" the action. Found lighter springs at the hardware store and improved the feel a lot.
 
The 45 colt cases are not designed to handle the high pressure.
Click to expand...

Actually, the case is not the limitation pressure-wise with modern .45 Colt cases; rather it is the platform that they are being used in. As for myself with a S&W 25-5, I am limited pretty much to 23k psi. But with the large frame Rugers and some other revolvers, 30k+ psi is clearly possible.

Don
 
Originally posted by USSR

Actually, the case is not the limitation pressure-wise with modern .45 Colt cases; rather it is the platform that they are being used in. As for myself with a S&W 25-5, I am limited pretty much to 23k psi. But with the large frame Rugers and some other revolvers, 30k+ psi is clearly possible.
Click to expand...

You're exactly right. In fact, Hodgdon lists .45 Colt 30K+ PSI loads for "Ruger Only." I don't shoot a lot of them in my Blackhawk, but for deer hunting they are truly impressive.
 
A continual pounding of high pressure loads in winchester and remington 45 colt cases will result in case stretching , and in some examples of signs of case separation just ahead of the case web... Of course that's just my observations from 50 years of actually shooting the things,,,, The best cases to use for continual battering of the gun and the shooter are federal.
 
Nothing lasts for ever, but my experience has been that the most common cause for case failure in the .45 Colt (and in many another handgun cartridge) is work hardening of the brass at the case mouth from frequent crimping.
 
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