Current S&W Quality?

I have a current model 60 at a year old. Great gun. Maybe 500 full bore 357 rounds through it so far. No problems.

I bought a new Model 60 this year, and it had some problems (not with the lock). I sent it back to the factory and it came back to me pretty quickly, with some major parts replaced. They also slicked it up for me, without me even asking for that. It is now as fine as the best S&W I have handled. Don't let my bad luck on the purchase scare you off. I own seven S&W revolvers; the Mod 60 is the third brand-new S&W bought in the past two years. My new 617 and my new 629 Classic are both up to S&W's excellent quality. And, their customer service and repair shop are tops. Have no fear.

THR rocks.

I just bought a new 686 plus. Excellent quality as far as I'm concerned. 500 rnds in the past 2 weeks and not 1 huccup. As far as the lock, .. Has not been an issue.

Howdy

Last year I bought a Model 686-6, the seven shot version, the first brand-spanky new Smith and Wesson I have bought in 40 years.



I bought it for a couple of reasons, I did not own any L frame Smiths and the price was pretty good. So I thought I would take the plunge.

To be honest it is a perfectly serviceable revolver, no hitches in operation.

But I am spoiled, and as far as I am concerned the quality simply is not there as it was with the 'older guns'. Of course, I must confess that 'older' to me goes all the way back to 1863 (yes 1863) and every decade since.

I am no fan of MIM parts, but I know they will do the job without breaking down. I just don't like them. MIM parts are there because they are cheaper to produce than forged and machine parts, end of story. They do the job, I just don't much like them.





This is as far as the yoke closes on the 686. In the old days, this never would have left the factory. No. it does not affect the function of the gun, but it looks sloppy.





I took the 686 to the range along with my trusty old Model 19-3 that I bought brand-spanky new in 1975.





Group size was ever so slightly smaller with the Model 19 than with the 686.





But look how far I had to crank the rear sight over to the right to get the gun to print where it pointed. Almost to the extent of the adjustment.




Trigger pull was a little bit rougher with the 686, but then again the Model 19 has had 40 years to smooth out.

Bottom line, the gun is rugged enough (I hate the full lug barrel, but that will not be a concern with the Model 67). For me it was an interesting experiment to buy a new Smith, but I doubt if I will be buying any more.

Compared to the old S&Ws the current production runs from OK to pretty bad. But you might get an OK one. I would absolutely remove or disable the lock unless it's only going to be a range gun. There have been a good number of documented cases of the lock completely disabling the gun. Murphy runs the Universe and he doesn't need any help. It would take some searching but I would rather find an older one. They're worth it.

Right now I'd say I'm pretty evenly split.
I've got my three SS N-frame shooters (all with the lock)
And three older blued model 19's

The older ones have the advantage of being broken in and nicer fit and finish on average.

They all shoot well. just check things like lock up, barrel gap and cant etc. All in all I'm very happy with all of them.

I only have purchased one “new” S&W, a model 637 in 2012. It’s my primary carry gun and I’ve never had a problem with 500+ rounds through it.

IMO, the current S&W revolvers are not as good as the older hand fitted one but better than most made today others.

I have several S&W revolvers that are newer and for the most part, they are good. Of course the fit and finish are not what you would have gotten in the times where everything was hand fitted but time have changed.

I'm wondering why you bought a M67 instead of the fairly new re-released M66 in .357 Magnum. I think the M66 gives you more versatility.

I bought a new 686 Talo 7 shooter last year. I have put over 3k rounds thru it without a hiccup.

Regarding the pic of the sight above...That is common. I have a 686 made in 1987. The barrel is not straight up on it. My rear sight had to be adjusted the same way. A Internet search found lots of others with the same issue.

I bought a 327PC last month. Exactly one week later it was on its way to Smith for repair. The titanium barrel shroud became loose. It apparently wasn't properly fitted or inspected before leaving the factory. Shouldn't happen to any revolver coming from S&W especially one from their performance center. When I was buying it the gun shop had another 327PC that had the grip screw head stripped. Whomever installed the grips at S&W had to see that it was tightened improperly. Should have replaced it right then. They also inspect every gun before it leaves the factory. So another guy had to see it and didn't bother to change it. Not a big deal maybe but for a gun that cost quite a bit of change its not showing good quality control. I'm still waiting for my gun to come back from repair. It will be four weeks next Monday that it arrived at the factory. I own several other S&W revolvers . One is a newer model(bought it a couple of years back) and three older guns. No issues with them. One of my friends bought a 686+ late last year his gun is also good to go. So long story short you will proabley have no issues with a new gun.....but you might.

I have gone as far as a 60-9 , which has the (horrible looking) MIM hammer and trigger. It is an excellent carry piece , but does not have the fine fit of my older Smith revolvers. It is my utility EDC ; I don't care if it gets dirty or dinged.

I could never bring myself to commit significant money to buy MIM parts AND the (no bad words stated) hole. There are still a lot of very good older Smith & Wesson revolvers to be had.

Regarding the pic of the sight above...That is common. I have a 686 made in 1987. The barrel is not straight up on it. My rear sight had to be adjusted the same way. A Internet search found lots of others with the same issue.

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Well, I guess I am more demanding than some other folks.

I currently own 3 modern S&W revolvers. a 3" Talo 686+, a 686 Competitor PC gun, and a 460V. I also have a Regulation Police from 1923. I also had a 642 in the past.

The 460V is as aesthetically perfect as you can expect in modern S&W guns. My 686+ has a ever so slightly canted barrel. As in 1 to 1.5 degrees. It does bug me a little bit. My PC gun has a bit of slop in the barrel stamping. the last R in Competitor is a little shallow and is double stamped from the factory. Yes, that bugs me a little also given what I paid for the gun.

Driftwoods assessment of the fit and finish in modern revolvers is IMO accurate. Compared to the old hand fitted guns, they are lacking. But since I started shooting when internal locks, crush fit barrels, and MIM parts were common, I am not as bothered by it as some. The imperfections may be fixed at some point if I start suddenly making more money than I do now, but in the mean time I have convinced myself that they are details that make those guns mine.

As far as durability goes, I have shot all three modern guns extensively and have found them to be great shooters. Nothing has broken on any of them and they all hit accurately if I do my job. Are they as smooth of operators as my old I frame? Not quite, but unless you shoot a lot of older guns and compare the two, I don't think you will be disappointed with the shootability of the new guns.

I have never had an issue with an internal lock.

The PC gun did have to go back to the factory. I was having failures to fire in DA shooting. S&W put a slightly longer firing pin it the gun as a fix. It works fine now, though I do wonder if they used a jack hammer to fix something that really required an angle grinder, if you take my meaning there.

In my experience, S&W revolvers are the same as they ever were; they are individuals. Each one needs to be inspected and assessed on it's own to make sure it checks out properly. You may get a dud. Or you may get a keeper. I don't think that's any different than any other company though. All the revolver builders seem to produce some bad guns nowadays.

And remember, there is no way for us to really know now how many of the older guns have gone back to the factory for service. When folks have issues today, they post it all over the internet. Not so in the past, so information sharing, and company reputation was more word of mouth. I would speculate that the hand fitting and higher QC probably lead to fewer issues back in the day, but I think there is an overall inaccurate notion in the revolver world that vintage Smith guns were trouble free works of art that never had issues. I simply don't believe that is true.

As far as comparing them to other company's guns, I've owned Rugers, and had problems. I still have one that is a good gun. I don't buy Taurus guns due to too many bad first hand experiences. I do not care for Charter Arms either.

I'd take a Ruger in a pinch, but I just prefer the S&W guns overall. good luck man.

Driftwood Johnson said:

Well, I guess I am more demanding than some other folks.

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I don't think so Driftwood. That sight issue has happened to me with a 22lr SP101 revolver. It drove me crazy and I had to get rid of the gun. There were other issues, but I can't stand something like that. Small imperfections I can tolerate, but a sight should not be that far off IMO.

The days of manufacturing under tight tolerances and hand fitting parts are pretty much gone. Now it's all about unit numbers. How many did we ship out today?

Without running the numbers, I think the most recent S&W I own (out of a strong baker's dozen) is a 15-6 circa 1990. It's strictly a personal preference, but I don't care for MIM, shrouded barrels, or internal locks.The 15-6 was maybe a Friday afternoon gun because the tip of the trigger isn't tapered and the left side of the trigger guard wasn't finished correctly. However, it has the best single and double action trigger of any of my other Smiths.

Cooldill said:

Hmm...

So based kn some of the reaponses, should I maybe seek out an older pre-lock Model 67?

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If you are concerned with having a looker, it might be a good idea. You may be more satisfied with the gun. But of course, you could still have issues. I think you would have a perfectly serviceable revolver if you went for a new gun, but it really comes down to what you want. So maybe answer these questions. If it were me, I'd go after a model 65, but that's JMO. Actually for a HD gun I'd go for a 627, 27, 28, 686+, 686, or 586, as I want the heft, but that's based on my dimensions and opinion, so I'm definitely not saying you should choose a different gun.

Does perfect fit and finish matter to me?
Do I have the patience to send the gun in for service if my new gun is less than stellar, or would I prefer a gun with mileage on it?
Does the lock bother me?
Does MIM bother me?
Do I ever want to have the action cleaned up? If so, forged parts will be a better choice.

You will also pay a premium for an older gun if it comes with the original box and papers. That's worth the money to some folks, and not to others. I used to care, but now I realize I'm more of a shooter than a collector.

Cooldill said:

So based kn some of the reaponses, should I maybe seek out an older pre-lock Model 67?

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And based on some other responses, you'd do ok buying new. How you read the thread has a lot to do with your bias going into it and/or what you really want from the gun.

As far as new S&W "quality", I'll just repeat my pat reply: The newer guns don't have the fit and finish of the older ones, but in general, they function as well (or better) than the older ones. When I've wanted a shooter I planned on wringing out, I've gone new and have had few complaints.

driftwood,

i would send that gun back to s&w and get that barrel screwed on right. the gap between the yoke and frame is from the barrel shroud not letting the cylinder/ejector rod assy come forward enough when closed. get the barrel turned in a bit more and i bet that group tightens up.

i have a model 28 that did the same thing, shot two feet left at 25 yards with the sights centered. i looked down where the barrel rib meets the frame and saw where the barrel was turned. a quick trip to the factory solved the problem.

cooldill,

the s&w factory is "aces", so i would not worry about buying "new". they will make it right (as long as the gun is less than 50 years old (another story!)).

luck to you both,

murf

I have multiple examples of both new and old models of S&W revolvers.

The absolute truth is that S&W is making the finest mass produced revolvers on the planet today. End of story.

More than any other manufacturer I have ever seen S&W suffers from their biggest "fans" also being their biggest detractors.

This is caused by the "good ole days" guys who refuse to soil their hands with a revolver that has a lock and/or MIM parts.

They have no problem calling the new models trash loudly and often which to me is dumb beyond calculation. The more folks buying revolvers and enjoying them the more revolvers get produced - not just by S&W but by other companies as well! That's great for all revo lovers.

Newsflash - the good ole days are gone and they ain't coming back. Manufacturing methods change...Its great to love the oldies. Its fine to say your prefer them. But to steer folks away or bash the new ones is simply putting out misinformation - plain and simple.

The new revolvers are rock solid, accurate, and lock up tight. The new 66 in particular is a sweet shooting handgun.

If the lock doesn't make you hysterical - buy one and enjoy.
If MIM doesnt make you hysterical - buy one and enjoy.

Ultimately my advice is buy one and enjoy.

If I wanted a new revolver for a house gun today, it would be a Ruger; not a Smith & Wesson.

Shaq said:

If I wanted a new revolver for a house gun today, it would be a Ruger; not a Smith & Wesson.

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I agree, I would too, but not necessarilly because it's so much "better", just that the GP is also a great pistol, that's a couple hundred cheaper, and will pretty much give the exact same performance. Being able to be fully disassembled by a novice is just another plus.
Also, I seem to be seeing a lot of the newer S&W 357's on the local classified sites. GP100's seem much less common, and seem to go very quickly when they do pop up.