Idea to make AR15 more pleasant

Status
Not open for further replies.

12Pump

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
314
I agree with the many others who don't really like the AR15's muzzle blast due to the muzzle brake that comes standard on it. When I shoot, I feel a blast hit me in the face. It feels like a concussive force. A shotgun has more power, and yet I don't feel that with a shotgun. The difference is because of the muzzle brake. I have what I believe is a standard A2 muzzle brake and looks just like this: http://www.fishpond.com/Sports_Outd..._campaign=US&gclid=CMv0z8q8qswCFYM2aQodLvwCtA

The problem comes from the muzzle blast being directed upward and apparently backwards. I'm aware that muzzle brakes can be changed, but I think the cost is ridiculous. I looked at a youtube video about it and it looks like you have to remove the barrel and place it in a vice, and then use a special tool that I don't have to remove the brake. Also, if the brake is on too tight and requires too much force to remove, there's a danger of damaging the barrel. Finally, a new brake would need to be put on that's supposedly quieter, and they aren't exactly cheap either: http://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLo...&Ns=p_metric_sales_velocity%7C1&Ntpc=1&Ntpr=1

So, what I was thinking about was simply getting a 2 or 3 inch pipe that's the same inner diameter as the diameter of my existing muzzle brake (and cost maybe 50 cents from a hardware store), and slipping it over the brake. That would cover the vent holes completely and cause the muzzle blast to be directed forward. It would sort of act like a 3" barrel extension. I know some may say the BATF could see it as an illegal suppressor, but it wouldn't be. It would be completely open-ended, so it wouldn't look or function any more like a suppressor than any muzzle brake. But my question is whether it would be safe. Would keeping the muzzle blast gasses confined within an extra few inches of pipe be harmful to the rifle's mechanics? I know semi-autos are engineered to work in a rather precise way. This is especially true of AR rifles, where a particular type of gas system is needed with different barrel lengths. Mine is 16". Would my idea keep the pressures up for too long a period of time to be safe?
 
Last edited:
That is a flash hider, not a muzzle brake. The A2 flash hider does work a bit as a compensator to reduce muzzle rise by omitting the bottom ports compared to the A1 "birdcage" style, but there is nothing that works as a brake to cancel recoil or direct any of the blast rearwards. 95% of the muzzle devices on Midway ARE brakes and will certianly increase the muzzle blast felt on the line.

To change the muzzle device (assuming it hasn't been pinned & welded or soldered in place to meet a state law) all you need is an upper receiver vise block and an appropriate sized wrench. Barrel removal is certainly NOT required. In fact, the muzzle device usually has to come off before removing the barrel. The tools aren't that expensive, and are also used if you want to build an AR later. Or, any gunsmith ought to be able to change the muzzle device for a reasonable charge.

There are tube style muzzle devices like you describe on the market already. They may increase the gas system pressure by a miniscule amount, but nothing significant. You could also just buy a thread protector and put that on, effectively making the rifle like a bare muzzle. I wouldn't worry a bit about this affecting cycling though. While gas operated guns are designed around certain parameters, an AR isn't typically as picky as you are imagining. I've gone from bare muzzle to brake to flash hider on the same gun without noticing a thing in terms of cycling.
 
It doesn't take any special tools to remove a flash hider. You don't even need an upper receiver vice. (that makes it a little easier though)

Slipping a piece of pipe over the existing flash hider is a bad idea. Try a different style one or just install a thread protector. Its not a big deal at all.
 
but there is nothing that works as a brake to cancel recoil or direct any of the blast rearwards.
+

I sure am surprised to hear this! So you're saying that even though my rifle sounds loud and feels like it's directing gasses back towards me, it could actually be a lot worse? :what:

I could also mention that I did a bit of an experiment that led me to believe the gasses were being directed back toward me. I slid a plastic bottle over the muzzle once because the mouth of the bottle fit perfectly over my flash hider. It was also the thickest part of the bottle, so I figured it would hold. Nope! The bottle mouth was blown to little pieces! And guess where the majority of the plastic pieces ended up. They ended up behind me. I thought that confirmed the idea that the gasses were being directed rearward. But my original intention was to see if the rifle sounded any quieter by blocking the flash hider's vent holes.
 
I looked at your previous posts to get an idea of what kind of rifle you were comparing to what kind of shotgun (ie, 16" rifle to 28" shotgun) to attempt a better response. Rifles will typically always be louder than shotguns for a few reasons, but the little flashhider on yours is probably not much of a factor. True brakes can be concussive.

However, I see that you are stuck on this idea and have posts about it in September and June of last year. Seems to have been addressed. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9944486#post9944486

A simple thread protector may help, and stay out from under tin roofs.
 
However, I see that you are stuck on this idea and have posts about it in September and June of last year. Seems to have been addressed. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...86#post9944486

Oh yeah, at that time I was thinking about extending the barrel to make my rifle quieter as opposed to having to buy a whole new barrel. That's before I heard about muzzle brakes being the problem. From what I've been told so far, it seems that my rifle could be even louder than it already is, since I don't actually have a true muzzle brake. If that's true, then would it even help to remove the flash hider I have? If it's not even a brake and doesn't do anything to make the rifle louder, then would removing it even help to make it any quieter?
 
To change the muzzle device (assuming it hasn't been pinned & welded or soldered in place to meet a state law) all you need is an upper receiver vise block and an appropriate sized wrench.

As a general rule its better to clamp the barrel in a V-block vice (with soft jaws or something to protect the barrel -- like scrap pieces from a leather belt). While the muzzle device should require significantly less torque that the barrel nut, they can sometimes be "frozen". The modern trend of using crush washers instead of peel washers to index the A2 hider doesn't help.
 
I vote for trying the thread protector and using better hearing protection. Or, better hearing protection. Maybe, just put plugs in the ears and muffs over the ears.

That's fine when at a range. But when it comes to it's main use as a home defender, I'd prefer to not have to depend on hearing protection. As it is now, I'm more comfortable using a shotgun for that purpose, but wouldn't mind using the AR for that role instead.
 
Electronic muffs are always right next to my bedside firearm. I don't want to shoot any gun indoors and lose what's left of my hearing. Electronic muffs allow me to hear what's going on in the house, my conversation with 911, and still be protected from hearing damage if I have to shoot.
 
I have standard muffs next to my bed. Not sure if they're a good idea or not since I wouldn't be able to hear an intruder once I put them on. Never had the electronic kind yet.
 
It sounds like the gases you are feeling is what comes out of the bolt. I doubt you are feeling anything from the muzzle device. I'm not too sure what the problem is here. You can get any type of flash hider, brake, or combination device you can imagine for the AR. No need to invent something new.
 
Agreeing with carbine85, I believe the blast you feel is actually coming around the charging handle. BCM Gunfighter charging handles mitigate this with a raised lip at the rear, and there is one called the Gas Buster that is supposed to eliminate it. My wife and I run Gunfighters on ours. She picked hers, and after trying it, I ordered one for mine. As far as felt blast and noise, the A2 birdcage has long been touted as the best for anyone behind or beside the weapon.
 
Dudeskis, ...

... muzzle brakes and flash hiders are yesterday's news. Been there, done that - actually, I've done it with several makes of MBs & FHs on several ARs. Everything from standard A2s to Noveske KX3s, BABCs, et al.

You can pick and choose all you want, but at the end of the day the only way to truly make an AR less "blasty," not to mention hearing-safe, is to use a quality suppressor.
 
Last edited:
I have standard muffs next to my bed. Not sure if they're a good idea or not since I wouldn't be able to hear an intruder once I put them on. Never had the electronic kind yet.

I have only one pair that are general purpose that I use for loud equipment and handgun shooting. It sure is nice how you can turn up the volume to hear every little sound, then when firing, the muffs essentially shut off the speakers for loud noises.

For a rifle, I'd have to get a slim set of electronic muffs. I use regular slim muffs when shooting rifles.

When a friend and I wear electronic muffs at the handgun range, we can nearly whisper and still make each others words out if our volumes are turned up.
 
Idea to make AR15 more pleasant.

More pleasant? I didn't think that an AR in 5.56 could be anymore pleasant than it is. The cartridge has somewhere around zero recoil and I never noticed a muzzle blast?

The%20AR%20Family.png

The best shooting of the above rifles are those with nothing but an 11 degree crown on the muzzle. That is pretty much true of all my AR type rifles. The only value I ever saw to a muzzle flash suppressor or any muzzle device was on the M16 and about all it did was suppress the flash and maybe help prevent climb when we shot full auto. The .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) is likely the most pleasant shooting round (along with a 222 Remington and other small cartridges) there is out there. Never felt a "blast" of any kind hit me in the face and that includes firing the M16 full auto.

Just My Take....
Ron
 
That's fine when at a range. But when it comes to it's main use as a home defender, I'd prefer to not have to depend on hearing protection. As it is now, I'm more comfortable using a shotgun for that purpose, but wouldn't mind using the AR for that role instead.
If you actually have to shoot at another human being, you'll never notice a little noise or blast, hell, you may not notice a mortar shell going off.....
 
You may want to consider something like a "muzzle projector sleeve" from Damage Industries

http://damageindustries.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=120_123&product_id=95

which screws onto a muzzle brake like this.

http://damageindustries.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=120_123&product_id=173

You could also just go with their "muzzle projector":

http://damageindustries.co/index.php?route=product/product&path=120_123&product_id=186

I have no experience with the above products. But I have ordered plenty from Damage Industries and they are good to go.

Joe Mamma
 
Post a photo of your muzzle device. Something is wrong, I'm questioning your premise that an A2 FH is to blame.

I've been shooting M16 A2s, Colt Commandos (11.5" barrel) & M4 carbines since I was 18 in the Army (over 20 years) all with A2 flash hiders and blast is not an issue, certainly nothing coming back at me. I own a 10.5" with an AAC Blackout FH, again no blast coming back.

If you truly have an A2 and it bothers you that much, I'd get one of the items Joe Mamma posted above, the last one is just $20 and a simple swap. You'll get a fireball, but it will be going forward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top