What Do You Carry For Defense Ammo?

Getting back on topic, any of the more recent JHP designs are just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to carry HST, Gold Dot, Barnes-X, Ranger-T, Winchester PDX, etc. Equipment, including bullets, is just part of the equation. There's training, mindset and awareness, to consider, too.

Tirod said:

Look at what we do have in the way of testing - mostly gel blocks at ten yards, for self defense ammo. And what is the statistical likelihood of use? Often, much closer range, and with a barrier, either heavy clothing, and always a significant bone structure, either chest or cranial.

Click to expand...

Being 5 fee away instead of 10 feet away is not going to substantially change anything. Negligible.

The good, extensive testing that we look at includes heavy clothing. Barriers are far less likely for non-LE, but there are certainly tests to be found with barriers and many rounds too, if you look.

For service cartridges I don't think cranial bone structures are really something that need extensive testing, eh? A good head shot is a good head shot, not that we should be expecting to have a bunch of those in defensive gun uses.

And of course this is why actual real world track record is often a major factor in carry round selection.

Tirod said:

What ammo focuses too narrowly on a item that can only incrementally improve the results where being accurate and timely has a much bigger influence.

Click to expand...

This seems like a false dichotomy. But anyway, the difference between some of the rounds people choose for defense is more than incremental. Round nose FMJ vs a JHP that does not expand vs a glaser safety slug vs that silly RIP ammunition...likely to be wildly different results from any of those compared to one of the major premium proven JHP's

481 said:

Getting back on topic, any of the more recent JHP designs are just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to carry HST, Gold Dot, Barnes-X, Ranger-T, Winchester PDX, etc. Equipment, including bullets, is just part of the equation. There's training, mindset and awareness, to consider, too.

Click to expand...

Pretty much.

I take it a step farther and try for rounds with a proven LE street record though...I don't know that the Barnes can make that claim. The big players premium offerings...Speer, Federal, Winchester, Remington...always a good default. Maybe even Barnes, Corbon, Hornady,

If you're looking for "on target" results that can be best determined in a lab type format, the lucky gunner ammo test is a good one.

The fact that their testing reveals well known law enforcement partners such as the Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot ( in lighter for caliber offerings) and +p 185 Golden Sabers by Remington in 45 to be above average performers....Leads me to believe they are testing in ways that closely mimic "real world" results as best you can in a lab.

I carry the 124HST in 9mm, and the 185+p Golden Saber on my night stand.

I don't get too fancy. I just use a standard JHP bullet.

I believe right now it is Fiocci loaded with Hornady XTP bullets.

I don't put much stock in the latest "Super Home Defense" or whatever marketing ploy they use to hype ammo. A good JHP is all I look for.

I do shoot a box or so at the range to make sure they feed reliably and are accurate in my gun.

Arkansas Paul said:

I don't get too fancy. I just use a standard JHP bullet.

I believe right now it is Fiocci loaded with Hornady XTP bullets.

I don't put much stock in the latest "Super Home Defense" or whatever marketing ploy they use to hype ammo. A good JHP is all I look for.

I do shoot a box or so at the range to make sure they feed reliably and are accurate in my gun.

Click to expand...

How do you determine whether or not a JHP is good?

ANY police dept

I find a round I like,then find ANY police agency that uses it as an issue DUTY ROUND.

Might sound over the top as to being careful,but as a retired LEO and having seen the inside of LOTS of courtrooms as a witness.

I saw too many TRYING after the FACT to defend their choice of a round in a shooting.

IF you choose a round that is a police issue,the agency can be the defender of that round in a courtroom.

I still carry the ISSUE round of my agency [ Ranger 165 SXT's in .40 S&W ] and yes I keep them current and shoot up the old stuff.

Do as you choose,its your butt in that courtroom,not any one else's on here.

Originally Posted by Danby Wesson View Post
My Home Defense (bedside if you will) weapon is an M1 Carbine with a 15 round magazine of 110 grain soft points.

I like this for several reasons:
- More powerful than a .357 in an easy to handle, light, relatively short platform with low recoil
- 15 rounds
- My wife will practice with it
- If all else fails it can still be used to fend off a close in attack or swung or jabbed with.

I have thought about mixing in 110 grain FMJ with the soft points, the idea being the FMJs would give better penetration against an assailant with body armor. Does anyone have any perspective on this idea?


WARP replied:

You are very unlikely to face home invaders wearing body armour.

Even with soft body armour you should still get some kind of effect on target with the sot points, and they would seem significantly better vs the far more likely unarmoured targeted.

If I wanted a shoulder fired firearm for home defense with a mind for defeating soft armour, but not wanting excess wall penetration, I would probably go with a light and fast bullet...something like 5.56/.223.

But I'll admit little knowledge of terminal ballistics of the different choices for your particular rifle. Does the FMJ penetrate walls and the like much more than the soft point?

Danby Wesson response:

There are no others living here other than my wife and I, and we live in a single level neighborhood with block walls between the houses, so over penetration isn't a big concern

You are correct that it's unlikely that a home intruder would have body armor, but it was also unlikely that the police in Northridge would encounter two bank robbers with body armor that day either. I am just looking for a possible extra advantage with no downside that I've yet thought of other than perhaps some legal issue regarding intent.

If the FMJ doesn't add anything then it's all moot, but if it does I'll consider loading alternating rounds in the magazine. It seems a 30 cal bullet at 2000 fps would have some significant penetration potential, but I too don't know too much about body armor, soft or hard.


__________________

Speer Gold Dots, or Hornady TAP +p ammo

Carbon HP in the Sig.
Dan

Federal 230 grains Hydra Shok .45ACP. Works for me.

L.W.

Self Defense Ammo

I have always been a fan of Glazer ammo. I haven't kept up with the exact stats of this ammo, so some of my statements may be off a little. Use Google to get exact info.
Back in the mid 90s this ammo came to my attention. I think the .380 round carries 300 #9 shot bbs. The copper jacket is highly serrated and a dab of blue wax holds the bbs in place. The article I read said, at that time, there were 356 people shot and 356 people won't be robbing any more US tax payers. Even though many bandits made it to the hospital the doctors were not able to sew up all the wholes in there intestines. This round upon impact, due to serration expands all its energy in the body cavity, it literally explodes upon inpac, won't over penatrat and go through interior walls of a house and injure people in the next room or exit a house. My 2 cents is its the perfect defense round. It does not have to be loaded hot to do its dammage, won't exit 1 body cavity and injured a second person, doesn't over penatrat going from room to other rooms, doesn't have excessive muzzle flash. What more could a home owner and care giver want for defending his family. The proper name is Glazer Safty Ammunition.

[email protected] said:

I have always been a fan of Glazer ammo. I haven't kept up with the exact stats of this ammo, so some of my statements may be off a little. Use Google to get exact info.
Back in the mid 90s this ammo came to my attention. I think the .380 round carries 300 #9 shot bbs. The copper jacket is highly serrated and a dab of blue wax holds the bbs in place. The article I read said, at that time, there were 356 people shot and 356 people won't be robbing any more US tax payers. Even though many bandits made it to the hospital the doctors were not able to sew up all the wholes in there intestines. This round upon impact, due to serration expands all its energy in the body cavity, it literally explodes upon inpac, won't over penatrat and go through interior walls of a house and injure people in the next room or exit a house. My 2 cents is its the perfect defense round. It does not have to be loaded hot to do its dammage, won't exit 1 body cavity and injured a second person, doesn't over penatrat going from room to other rooms, doesn't have excessive muzzle flash. What more could a home owner and care giver want for defending his family. The proper name is Glazer Safty Ammunition.

Click to expand...

In a word: Nope

38 special - Federal Gold Medal 148 grain full lead wadcutter hollow base .

.38 Special: 158 Grain Lead Semi Wadcutter Hollowpoint +P, Federal or Remington OR Speer Gold Dot 135 grain JHP +P

9mm: Currently Speer Gold Dot standard pressure 124 grain JHP (TNOutdoors9 found basically no difference in expansion in penetration performance in SGD 124 standard vs +P, so I went with standard pressure for slightly less recoil). I would however prefer 147 grain standard pressure Gold Dots or Federal HST, but the I got an excellent deal on the 124s.

45 ACP: Federal 230 grain HST

44 Special: Cor Bon DPX Barnes 200 grain JHP

.357 Magnum: Speer Gold Dot 125 grain JHP

.357 Magnum 4 legged critter: Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast

.44 Magnum 4 legged critter: Remington 240 grain JSP or Hornady XTP 300 grain JHP

AR-15: Hornady TAP 75 Grain OTM, and a butt load of Federal XM 193

147gr Winchester Ranger "T" Series RA9T in my Rohrbaugh R9


http://winchesterle.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/RA9T.aspx

http://winchesterle.com/Lists/CatalogAmmo/Attachments/17/RA9T.pdf

Muzzle Velocity = 990 fps

Penetration - Bare gelatin: 13.9"
Expansion: .65"

Penetration - 4 layer denim: 14.5"
Expansion: .66"

Penetration - Heavy cloth: 14"
Expansion: .66"

Penetration - Wallboard: 15"
Expansion: .67"

Winchester's comparison webpage:

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

147gr HST and/or RA9T in my CM9.


A bunch of 9mm threads here where we debate the merits of various ammo:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=737216

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8979055#post8979055

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8910431#post8910431

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8826720#post8826720

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8786830#post8786830

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8630918#post8630918

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8520246#post8520246

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8516005#post8516005

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8468322#post8468322

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8230427#post8230427

.380 - 90 Grain Speer Gold Dot
9mm - 124 Grain +P Speer Gold Dot
.223/5.56 - 64 Grain Speer Gold Dot
12 Gauge - Federal LE132 Flitecontrol 00 Buckshot, Federal Truball Low Recoil Slugs. I know the OP said shotguns aside, but I love the shotgun .

For all the guys that handload their defense ammo, a buddy of mine got fed up with high prices and no availability and started loading his own. 9mm 115 Grain Hornady XTP, New Starline Brass, CCI 500 Primers, and a book maximum load of Vhitavouri 3N37. We chronographed 10 rounds and the lowest velocity was 1302 fps. +P+ velocities at per Vhitavouri SAAMI pressures. I think he has a winner.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Federal hst in my SBR and Glock 19.

I use 147 grain Gold Dots in my G19 (EDC). I don't believe it's markedly superior to other premium JHPs, it's just the first premium JHP I ever tried in the gun, and they worked/fed without any issues. Since I've never heard a report of them failing to work/open as designed, I've stuck with them, alternating to 124 grain Gold Dots when the 147 weren't available.

Keep it simple. Hollow points that function reliably in my pistol from an American company. People spend way to much time worrying about this and reading about what they do in jello instead of just doing what I described above and practicing with cheaper ammo to make sure they can put a bullet where it needs to go when the time comes.

Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124gr....Winchester Ranger 147gr...or Double tap 124gr.

Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST in 45ACP and 9mm.

GOB- if you want to pay that kind of cash out to practice with rounds that cost up to $1 each, go for it. I don't think it requires a high performance hollow point to put a hole in a piece of paper or ding a piece of steel to a max distance of about 25 yards. I go through a 1,000 round case of practice ammo every 2 months or so, so I would go broke pretty quick. Using a cheaper ammo for practice is common among LE, most military units, and most competitors who aren't sponsored.

20 gauge 3" # 4 buck inside the house, 148 gr. HBWC 3.5 gr Bullseye 38 S&W Special carry.