Advice on an ar-10

On the spec sheet the barrels look identical including chrome lining.

Yeah, the trigger is the only difference. My DEF10 is even marked "AR10A" on the lower.

DPMS Oracle LR 308. Iron sights.

ny32182, yes the trigger is the only difference between the ArmaLite DEF10 and other the AR-10A you linked. When buying just the triggers there's about a $50 price difference but $500 in the rifles. You can get a really good aftermarket trigger and have $250 to put back in your pocket!

I scratched my head a lot and shook it a few times before I bought the DEF10. Glad I did buy it as people are figuring it out so they're in short supply.

And, yes the DEF10 barrel is chrome lined. And like Henschman's, my receiver is marked AR-10A.

This ArmaLite is priced to sell.

ArmaLite AR-10® A-Series Defensive Sporting Rifle, DSR10, DEF10

Caliber .................... 7.62X51 mm NATO / will accept .308 Winchester
Action ..................... Semi-automatic rifle, direct-impingement
Barrel ..................... 16" button cut, double lapped, chrome lined / 4140 chrome moly, lightweight profile
Rifling Twist ............. 1:11.25” RH 6 groove (works well with 150-175 grain ammo with 168 grain being ideal)
Feed Ramps ............. M4 feed ramps
Gas system length .... Mid-length, gas tube length - 12-1/16” (0.180” OD and 0.117” ID)
Muzzle Device .......... A2 birdcage style flash suppressor (threaded 5/8"x24 TPI)
Bolt ........................ Bolt is 8620 steel, batch tested, shot peened and grit blast finished
Bolt Carrier .............. Carrier is 8620 steel, staked gas key, carrier & gas key chrome lined
Sights ..................... Optics ready, Picatinny rails provided, no sights included
Front Sight Base ....... MIL-STD 1913 rail on a .750” clamping gas block
FSB rail offset .......... Top of gas block is .398 (+/- .010) lower than top of receiver
Handguards ............. Standard M4-style with single heat shields (8" Mid-length)
Grip ........................ Standard A2 style pistol grip
Stock ...................... Standard M4 6-position collapsible stock, length of pull 11-1/8” to 14-1/2”
Upper Receiver ......... Forged flat-top receiver with MIL-STD 1913 rail, forward assist 7175-T74
Lower Receiver ......... Forged 7175-T73 aluminum alloy
Rifle controls ............ Standard AR-15 position / function
Magazine Type .......... Original ArmaLite AR-10/SR-25/PMAG form factor
Receiver Extension .... Carbine length tube, milspec O.D. diameter - 1.145” - 1.147”, 7-5/8” (inside depth)
Buffer Type .............. H3 heavy carbine buffer, 3-1/4” - weight 5.4 oz
Buffer Spring ........... .308 buffer spring - carbine length 13-1/8” - weight 1.8 oz
Trigger .................... Single-stage, standard milspec AR-15 trigger group
Charging Handle ....... Standard ArmaLite AR-10
Finish ...................... Hard anodized aluminum receivers, manganese phosphated steel barrel
Overall Length .......... Variable overall length of 35.0" to 38.3"
Weight ..................... 7.9 lbs. (no sights, no magazine)
Coloring ................... The rifle and all the furniture feature a matte black finish
Included with rifle ..... One 20-round Magpul M3 PMAG, Owner’s Manual
Warranty .................. Limited lifetime warranty for original owner
Part Number ............. DEF10
UPC Number ............. 651984014257
MSRP/Street Price ..... $1,049 / $996

The Defensive Sporting Rifle 10 is made and tested in Geneseo, IL, USA under the same quality standards ArmaLite has provided for the last 60 years. Legendary ArmaLite quality in a streamlined platform, the DSR10 is a high quality, no frills carbine well suited for duty, sport, or defense. These carbines are “optics-ready” and do not come with sights or optics, leaving that spending decision up to the user. The Defensive Sporting Rifle 10 uses a double lapped, chrome lined/chrome moly barrel for extreme durability and accuracy, and comes with a 20-round Magpul M3 PMAG. The DSR10 accepts all ArmaLite parts designed for AR-10® A-Series rifles. It also accepts standard Magpul PMAG LR/SR M3 magazines (10, 20 and 25 rounds). (The DSR10 B-Series uses proprietary ArmaLite/M14 magazines.) *

Hard-hitting and rugged at home, on the range or in the field, serious carbine shooters deem the ArmaLite AR-10® carbine as the heavy caliber to own. Tactical flexibility combined with the compact length of the 16-inch barrel and collapsible stock are standard to any A4 carbine model; but add in the advancements that our engineers have made standard on every ArmaLite AR-10®—such as improved feeding, extraction and ejection—and there is not another heavy caliber carbine that can compare.

* The AR-10A family of ArmaLite rifles is functionally identical to our AR-10B family. Operation, controls, and maintenance are the same however, the AR-10A family is designed to accept early ArmaLite AR-10 “Waffle” magazines and other magazines copied from them. The AR-10B family accepts our proprietary steel magazines introduced due to the 1994 AWB. Neither family of rifles will function correctly with the other alternate magazine. ArmaLite AR-10 parts will fit either family with the exception of the upper receiver, lower receiver, bolt hold open, magazine catch and magazine (there are A and B versions of these five parts).

AR stands for ArmaLite.

That's true, Robert, but the original 1950s ArmaLite AR-10/AR-10A engineering that was buried in the 1960s resurfaced in the early 1990s when Knights Armament and Eugene Stoner designed the SR-25. A year or so later the new ArmaLite worked with both designs and introduced today's AR-10. Some original AR-10 parts, KAC parts and AR-15 parts worked in the new AR-10. (ArmaLite even did initial testing with a KAC upper on their lower.) Unfortunately, the Clinton AWB forced the use of M14 magazines in order to offer a 20 round magazine to the average citizen. The sunset of the AWB and the A series again works with the original magazine. Anyway, ArmaLite isn't embellishing too much when claiming 60 years experience with the AR-10 and AR-15.

Sweet... I always wanted a cheap but decent quality AR10 to try out and see if I like the platform, and when I was looking around years ago, Armalite seemed like the ticket... no real quality complaints I could ever find, except I didn't want to deal with the proprietary magazines. Now that they have the SR25 magazine models, I just bought one off Gunbroker. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the post.

"Accuracy is about 1MOA or a little worse with the chrome barrel and a variety of loads. It's sub-MOA with several loads with the match barrel. I normally shoot Hornady 155gr. TAP or 165gr. Accubonds."

I tried to order either DPMS or Armalite with a chrome lined barrel. I was told they don't chrome line .308's.

Check out Mega Arms MATEN. I've owned Armalite , DPMS and others. The Mega Arms beats them all.

joem1945 said:

"Accuracy is about 1MOA or a little worse with the chrome barrel and a variety of loads. It's sub-MOA with several loads with the match barrel. I normally shoot Hornady 155gr. TAP or 165gr. Accubonds."

I tried to order either DPMS or Armalite with a chrome lined barrel. I was told they don't chrome line .308's.

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DPMS doesn't chrome line their 308 AR barrels. ArmaLite does.

DPMS doesn't chrome line their 308 AR barrels.

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They do on some GII models. My GII AP4 is 4150, chrome lined bore and chamber.

The barrel of the DPMS Oracle may not be chrome lined, but it is HBAR 4140 chromemoly.

So pretty much the cheapest barrel profile and material available.

Is this compatible with all Armalites? Looks like they have some form of the Raptor on a few of them from the factory:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...harging-handle-assembly-ar-10-lr-308-aluminum

I have a Rock River LAR-8, in .308. I bought it because I've had such incredible luck with a Rock River in 5.56mm. The LAR-8 is slightly different than other AR-10-type rifles, as it is specially designed to use FAL magazines, which are plentiful and cheap (I've found them for as little as $6 and change). Moses Machine also makes incredible quality magazines for more $$, but they're truly great magazines - I have a number of them.

All that said, the .308 I have is not a lightweight rifle - it has a heavy 26" barrel and Rock River's "Operator" non-collapsible stock. Mine is not a rifle for toting around the field for long with that barrel. Once I zeroed in on a handload that the rifle likes, it very easily hits under 1 MOA. I handed it to a friend at the range who had never shot it and he proceeded to cut one hole about golf ball sized at 100 yards with all 20 rounds in the magazine.

Mine has a Leupold Mark 4, 8.5-25X scope on it and I look forward to trying some much longer range shooting with it.

Take a look at Rock River if you haven't. I've had good luck with them. When I've called them on the phone, a human answers and takes care of your issue. Remember that there are no "milspec" AR-10 type rifles - they're all going to have their quirks. Good luck finding what you want!

ny32182 said:

Is this compatible with all Armalites? Looks like they have some form of the Raptor on a few of them from the factory:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...harging-handle-assembly-ar-10-lr-308-aluminum

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It is with their AR-10s (not M15s) but you might want to buy your Raptor from ArmaLite. I did and it is marked prominently ArmaLite, visible when you pull it back. It's about $100. I love the Raptor design, very strong and smooth. I figured since I was saving $500 on the DEF10 I could be extravagant with the charging handle.

....Once I zeroed in on a handload that the rifle likes, it very easily hits under 1 MOA. I handed it to a friend at the range who had never shot it and he proceeded to cut one hole about golf ball sized at 100 yards with all 20 rounds in the magazine.....

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Wow, my FN SPR would have a hard time doing that

I've got an 1993 SR-25 Match, an LR-308 stainless fluted barrel and a SiG 716 DMR ...

25 years and at least 10K rounds later the SR-25 still shoots sub-moa, around .6" at 100 ... The SiG is .8" to .9" with about 2K down the tube and I've never found a load the LR-308 really likes ... It's closer to 1.6" @ 100 with about 3K down range.

I had an early 90's AR-10 A4 ... After 9 months of waiting for it and it had a terrible finish (thin & spotty) and I could never get it to shoot under 2" @ 100 ... CS was totally unresponsive but they were churning out rifles as fast as they could ... I'm sure they've gotten better but I'll never give them another dime ... they burnt their bridge with me, and there are too many other players on the field now.

I'm seriously considering building one on Spikes "Jack" 308 upper/lower set ... It's also KAC/DPMS pattern

My Armalite should be here tomorrow; not sure if I will have a chance to go pick it up, but I'll report on any apparent issues with the finish.

Thanks for the info Quentin... I see you have a rear flip up sight on there. Can you tell me how you addressed the offset between the rails (receiver vs gas block) for the front sight?

Did you get a rail system that is inline with the upper, or did you get a riser of some kind for the stock front gas block?

I'll probably end up with a front end rail of some kind sooner rather than later anyway, but I don't understand why they wouldn't at least make the stock front gas block inline with the receiver.

ny32182, yes ArmaLite's gas block rail is about 0.4" below the receiver rail. I just used ArmaLite's standard non-flipdown AR-10 sight because I'm not adding a rail. I used a rear flip up (MBUS2) to allow using a scope.

I believe there are metal flip up sights suitable for the low gas block rail but I liked the standard fixed sight, and of course it comes off if necessary. Sounds like you're going for a FF rail anyway so maybe just go with an optic for now and add BUIS later after the new rail.

Edit:

I hope you like your DEF10! The finish on mine was quite good, much better than an M15 stripped lower I bought in 2009. There was nothing wrong with that lower but the finish was rough and the magwell was a bit sticky. Night and day difference between it and the DEF10.

The only "issue" was the dust cover wouldn't close. When I called CS I got right through and was told to push the cover spring forward. I did and darn if it didn't work!

ny32182 said:

My Armalite should be here tomorrow; not sure if I will have a chance to go pick it up, but I'll report on any apparent issues with the finish.

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I'm guessing it will be fine, Armalite has grown into a substantial company with a good reputation ... my experience with them just left a bad taste I can't get past.

Enjoy and don't forget the range report!