Why i HATE conceiled carry and what can i do to fix it?

OP Cobra:

1) Some shirts are 'designed' to be worn un-tucked, and still look good (I know, it ain't the 80's...), and would be long enough to cover the piece, maybe.

2) I hear you about full-size carry preference; I have a 1911, but if I carried, it would be my Beretta 92FS, a full-size gun. And I'm 5-7 and maybe 140 lbs. You just have to dress for it, if possible. Unless I were wearing a full-length trench coat with a suit, I'd have to have a vertical draw shoulder holster and some carefully-cut duds not to show it.

(I carried when I lived in another state...it was a 4" S&W Model 10 with a bull barrel.)

Too many quotes here to copy and paste so let me sum it up this way. For everyone concerned this young lad is carrying illegally, no need to worry, remember it's all LOL.

While another state's permit may allow you to carry, you must follow the rules for the state you're in. Minimum age to carry in TN is 21. Period.

I don't think you're legal to carry at 19 in TN as a TN resident. You may be OK if you were a Maine resident passing through but you are not.

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Only a 19 year old in today's world would imagine that carrying in your own state on another state's non resident license could possibly be a smart thing to attempt. Of course he isn't legal. It's scary to think that someone with that kind of logic is driving a truck much less carrying a gun.

It is very possible that if the OP continues on his line of thinking that he will end up never being able to own a gun. I chalk up his line of thinking to impatience (not 21 yet) and immaturity. Those 2 things can ruin his life and cost him tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. He needs to take a step back and heed the advice given here. It's funny that he hasn't posted in a while.

If he gets caught carrying a modern pistol (80% frame), without a serial number, the carry permit question will likely be the least of his problems.

HexHead said:

If he gets caught carrying a modern pistol (80% frame), without a serial number, the carry permit question will likely be the least of his problems.

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He's not breaking TN or Fed laws by doing that. He's not required by either to serialize a gun he built himself. They'll still cuff him and bring him in though. Once they figure that out they can't charge him for that they'll get him for the concealed carry bit.

So, the legality of concealed carry on an out of state permit, by a resident of TN, in TN, is very important to determine.

MANY states expressly prohibit the practice of one of their residents carrying on another state's non-res permit within that state.

HOWEVER, so far no one has shown that TN is actually one of those states that does so. This may be ABSOLUTELY lawful.

And, while we all have our opinions on how the law "logically" aught to apply, those opinions don't matter even a little bit.

It is entirely possible that this particular question (Can a TN resident who's under the age of 21 carry a firearm concealed in TN if they've been issued a non-resident permit to carry by another state who's permits are recognized in TN?) has not been fully explored and answered by the TN courts.

Remember that, if an exact circumstance isn't defined under state law, then CASE LAW will apply. And sometimes case law will be made when none exists.




(But, please, for the love of Pete, write the CCW instructor's and cop's advice on a piece of toilet paper and go flush it. Because that's how much those opinions are worth to you.)

Let's assume for the sake of the discussion (and there are good reasons) that 1) the gun is perfectly legal 2) his permits allow it.

Go to the declaration in the OP's opening remarks - he's set up exclusive requirements and refuses to accept any compromises whatsoever. That goes to attitude.

Wrong attitude.

Carrying a weapon in ANY manner, concealed or openly, you WILL accept compromises in where and when you can. We all do. NO GUNS means exactly that, you can't go wherever someone likes armed. Regardless of how legally attired or permitted, if guns are outlawed on the premises, and you get busted, there will be legal consequences.

There are also circumstances in life where carrying doesn't work - at all. We may have someone who signs their posts with a line stating they are always armed even stepping out of the shower, but there you are. Most of us don't. Working in tight places such as crawl spaces, under cars, inside building interiors, on board ship, nope, no gun. Especially if it can hang up on controls or cause issues. Funny I don't see linemen working in buckets with chain saws practicing open carry with 1911's. Maybe I should look closer - but I don't think it's real common.

The assertion that someone can openly carry a 1911 and dress they way they please signals that the individual isn't mature enough to do it. That attitude is going to be the impetus to do something that will eventually restrict the right to carry at all.

We haven't even touched on why? What serious threat to life and limb requires carrying a 1911 all day in clothing chosen to show off someone's physique and send a signal that someone is in great shape? I read more mixed signals that there is a lack of maturity and even less reason to open carry. Something doesn't add up and it goes to a deficient self image.

In the day it would be suggested that a three year tour of service working for the DOD might help fix the issues - but they are a lot pickier these days and try to recruit those who are already past that. Deep resentment against what are known and serious reasons to not do exactly what is proposed won't work in the long run. How does somebody like me know? Been there done that, I'm 45 years further down the road. Setting one's self up for failure by making uncompromising decisions isn't how you build a good track record in life.

What I'm reading are statements that testosterone influences decision making and not logic or a realistic assessment of how life works. Having been taught what was supposed to happen and then finding things entirely different later in life, I understand the idealism being stated. Idealism is a good character quality in young people, but reality does finally dawn later in life. It's not the world I intended to grow old in, things aren't fixed yet. But honestly, it's a lot better than it could be.

Lighten up. Face the fact that eventually compromises can, have, and will be accepted. I'll close with the observation I'm working on the wife's car today and tight fitting clothing in the 85 degree heat outdoors in the sun isn't my first choice, neither is strapping a P938 on my belt while wiggling underneath to work on it. Sounds like a recipe for trouble. At the very least it would scrape and beat the gun's finish, too.

Then it would look stupid, not cool.

No, you can't carry the way you want to. That's the purpose of the post, to hear somebody say it.

This is from Handgunlaw.us and it's also on the Tennessee state code website.

"(B) If a person with a handgun permit from another state decides to become a resident of Tennessee, the
person must obtain a Tennessee handgun permit within six (6) months of establishing residency in
Tennessee. The permit may be issued based on the person having a permit from another state provided the
other state has substantially similar permit eligibility requirements as this state. However, if during the six month
period the person applies for a handgun permit in this state and the application is denied, the person
shall not be allowed to carry a handgun in this state based upon the other state's permit."

He is already a resident of Tn so I can't see how he can legally carry in his own state on a non-resident permit from another state. It also says that if you are denied a resident permit the non-resident permit will not be accepted. The mere fact that he is under 21 denies him the resident permit.

Sam1911 said:

So, the legality of concealed carry on an out of state permit, by a resident of TN, in TN, is very important to determine.

MANY states expressly prohibit the practice of one of their residents carrying on another state's non-res permit within that state.

HOWEVER, so far no one has shown that TN is actually one of those states that does so. This may be ABSOLUTELY lawful.

And, while we all have our opinions on how the law "logically" aught to apply, those opinions don't matter even a little bit.

It is entirely possible that this particular question (Can a TN resident who's under the age of 21 carry a firearm concealed in TN if they've been issued a non-resident permit to carry by another state who's permits are recognized in TN?) has not been fully explored and answered by the TN courts.

Remember that, if an exact circumstance isn't defined under state law, then CASE LAW will apply. And sometimes case law will be made when none exists.




(But, please, for the love of Pete, write the CCW instructor's and cop's advice on a piece of toilet paper and go flush it. Because that's how much those opinions are worth to you.)

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Tennessee laws requires CCL licensees from other states to acquire a TN license within 6 months of taking up residence in TN. Given that the OP has always been a TN resident they could presumably start at the point where he became a TN resident. Its all going to happen when he gets pulled over, or stopped for whatever reason, and the officer asks for his CCL license and drivers license, figures out he's 19 and starts asking why he's carrying at 19 with an out of state CC license and a TN drivers license . By the time it makes it to court its been established he has been in TN more than 6 months and by TN law his out of state license is no longer or was never valid in TN. 90 days in the pokey and legal fees.

what state do you live in?

edit:nm read the rest of the posts.

I was 19 once, and stupid to boot. Hopefully the OP won't end up with a felony record prior to his becoming 21. That would really suck.

Cobra, I was going to wholeheartedly give you advice on concealed carry methods. I have carried in places I was not allowed to carry for over 10 years. Now, however.. I simply cannot condone it. You're attempting to carry a firearm illegally with a possibly illegal handgun. I cannot morally be a part of aiding in such acts.

You cannot carry. Period.

Kleanbore said:

Well, that would certainly apply if a citizen of Maine who had been issued a permit by the state of Maine were to decide to become a resident of Tennessee.

The question is whether a resident of Tennessee who had been issued a non-resident permit by the state of Maine would have to acquire a TN license.

Not clear, it it?

A MO resident can carry with a nonresident permit for other states, subject to reciprocity agreements, as long as the permit remains valid.

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Exactly. I think this all very well may be legal. An interesting angle to use in order to carry.

The only thing is, the OP should be prepared for excessive difficulty explaining or defending their "loophole" should they unfortunately need to use their CCW. It could turn a routine self defense situation into something far more drawn out, expensive, and stressful.

Kleanbore said:

Well, that would certainly apply if a citizen of Maine who had been issued a permit by the state of Maine were to decide to become a resident of Tennessee.

The question is whether a resident of Tennessee who had been issued a non-resident permit by the state of Maine would have to acquire a TN license.

Not clear, it it?

A MO resident can carry with a nonresident permit for other states, subject to reciprocity agreements, as long as the permit remains valid.

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If a resident of MO got a Maine license and moved to TN his license would be good for 6 months. If a resident of TN got a Maine license and it came up in court why would it be any different? Even if they went with the most liberal interpretation of the statute the TN resident would have 6 months to get a TN license. Given that the TN resident was not legal to get a license or carry under TN law do you think a judge would look favorably upon the OP's actions of attempting to circumvent TN law? I wouldnt want to be in his shoes sitting in front of a judge explaining how I had attempted to evade the law in TN with a cute little run around.

I have a Utah non resident concealed carry license. Its good everywhere except the state I live in. If I was from Utah it would be legal in the state I reside in. I accept that and have a Washington permit as well

When I think about a resident using a non resident permit I think of Colorado and how they have a specific prohibition against it. Before that change it was perfectly legal for me to use only the Utah NR permit in Co.
What I don't understand is the assertion that he is operating under the laws of Maine on Tennessee's turf. I have trouble believing that one state would allow another to impose in that way.

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Yugorpk, you're using your own logic to derive a LEGAL answer to this question.

I warned about that in the post you quoted.

Just because you think it makes sense that the law would work that way doesn't -- AT ALL -- mean that the law works that way.

You're making leaps over important gaps and then covering them with "why wouldn't it work that way?"

Basically, the answer to that is because the law does not spell out that it works that way.

Absent the law SAYING it does, it doesn't. Or it may not. Again, without case law spelling out how the courts have applied the law in exactly this type of situation, all you have is absolutely nothing more than a naked guess that it might.



For what it may be worth, it wasn't until 2013 that PA's courts finally ruled that a PA resident had to have a PA "LCTF" to carry concealed here, and could not do so on the merits of some other state's carry permit.

This is NOT a hard-and-fast universal thing that's always been this way.

cobra246 said:

. As for carrying i must agree wholeheartedly with you that it is a very heavy responsibility...one that i almost wouldnt want but the state of the social climate has gotten more and more crime ridden that it really demands the carrying of a weapon.

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I don't want to derail this thread, but all of the objective evidence is that, with a few highly-localized exceptions, America is generally less "crime ridden" than at any point since the 1950's. This decline has coincided with the rise of liberal* concealed carry laws around most of the country, as well as with record firearm sales. The decline of crime while numbers of guns and numbers of gun carriers rise is one of the better empirical arguments that we have against gun control and anti-gun views. Don't give that argument away because the media are showing you more crime.

* Literal meaning.

Sam1911 said:

Yugorpk, you're using your own logic to derive a LEGAL answer to this question.

I warned about that in the post you quoted.

Just because you think it makes sense that the law would work that way doesn't -- AT ALL -- mean that the law works that way.

You're making leaps over important gaps and then covering them with "why wouldn't it work that way?"

Basically, the answer to that is because the law does not spell out that it works that way.

Absent the law SAYING it does, it doesn't. Or it may not. Again, without case law spelling out how the courts have applied the law in exactly this type of situation, all you have is absolutely nothing more than a naked guess that it might.



For what it may be worth, it wasn't until 2013 that PA's courts finally ruled that a PA resident had to have a PA "LCTF" to carry concealed here, and could not do so on the merits of some other state's carry permit.

This is NOT a hard-and-fast universal thing that's always been this way.

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This is the text of the email I just sent to the TN attorney general.

"Can a 19 year old resident of TN get a concealed handgun carry permit from another state such as Maine that allows non residents under 21 to hold permits and then use that permit in TN to carry a handgun ? "

"Can a 19 year old resident of TN get a concealed handgun carry permit from another state such as Maine that allows non residents under 21 to hold permits and then use that permit in TN to carry a handgun ? "

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Although I have absolutely mastered the awkwardly-constructed phrase more often than not, your question as worded makes my head spin.

Wouldn't it read better if it asked, "IF a 19 yr old resident of TN obtains a CCW permit from Maine, can this resident then use the Maine permit to carry concealed *in TN* under color of repricoprocity?"

There you go, and that's as near-awkward as your phrasing!