FTF Legality Question

Depending on the location of the gun store it may be "locally" illegal. In my state (VA) it isn't. Private transactions aren't regulated by the feds.
Joe

This is a common complaint of FFLs who say that anything that happens on their licensed premises is their responsibility. I do not know of any specific law that says this but every FFL I know doesn't allow transactions not with them to take place on their property.
IN one case, the guy was downright irate and yelling, and I wasn't even buying, just looking.

It is common and legal unless the store posts their parking lot to the contrary. Private property is private. They can ask you to leave and then you are committing a crime if you stay against their will. One retail store near me, also has a range. Many people come to the range to function test before a private sale. The range gets their fee and more traffic which should increase retail sales. I think they should get upset if flippers uses their parking lot for free as a discount private sales floor and undercut them regularly.

Does your local used car lot let you conduct your private sale on their property? Do you go to the local cell phone store to horsetrade over a IPhone 4 you found on craigslist? Do you arrange to deal your old Omega to private buyers at the local Rolex jeweler?

What people are doing is choosing a place they think is "safe" to handle a transaction. Obviously to the detriment of the FFL. It comes from the selfish mindset that somebody in retail has to accept that a customer on their premises is always right and the owner can't do anything about it because they will bad mouth them and cause them to lose business.

Arrogance, pure and simple. The American Consumer.

Another example of the total lack of respect and common sense that is rampant in this country. This is part of the reason our society has a law for everything we do.
I know some will be offended but a business has the right to not have someone else set up shop in their lot.

Arrogance, pure and simple. The American Consumer.

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I know some will be offended but a business has the right to not have someone else set up shop in their lot.

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And these exhibit another failing of the average American. Lack of attention to the actual thing being said or question being asked.

"Is it illegal on the federal level...?"

We are, as a species, so ready to give our opinion about things and to opine on the general state of the world and our fellow man that we'll bypass the actual discussion at hand and deflect the conversation into whatever else it is WE wanted to talk about.


Nobody asked if it was legal or ethical for a BUSINESS to have and enforce policies about such things. A business can have a policy that you can't wear a red shirt in their store, or chew bubble gum while speaking to a salesman, or sell girl scout cookies, or whatever else they don't want on their property.

Discussing that is totally off the topic of whether there is a FEDERAL LAW regulating such activities.

Is it illegal on the federal level to conduct a Face To Face sale in a gun store parking lot.

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And the answer is 'no', assuming that you are conducting the sale in accordance with Federal laws regarding to whom you can sell a firearm.

I met a machine gun seller at a rental range for a test fire. We sat down in the nice lobby and started doing paperwork and we got shewed out of there pretty quick. Finished off in his car behind the building rather than drive out of my way back to his house. If he had been a coffee drinker we could have done to Starbucks

This was a shared parking lot, BTW. 9 times out of 10, the gun shop is not the owner of the lot.

As far as the original question, I do not believe that it is illegal.

Mike

If a state doesn't require that all sales go through an FFL license holder and face-to-face sales are legal, I've never read of a state restriction on face-to-face sale locations. The feds don't care about the location of the transaction, indoor or out of doors--as long as both are residents of that state.

I'd say it's not a matter of law so much as the gunstore owner's wish. Going along with his wish is a matter of courtesy; the world is full of parking lots.

I asked the same question about six months ago. I have scoured the ATF website and can find no mention of it being illegal.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=795616

"Legal" for whom?

I was told by BATFE that an FFL dealer is "responsible" for firearms/ammo transactions conducted on his "licensed premises", which might include his parking lot if it is at the licensed address. That does not mean it is illegal, but it must be done in compliance with the rules, i.e., record keeping, waiting periods, etc., the same as if it was inside. (To use BATFE's example, a dealer could set up in a tent in his parking lot if it is part of his "licensed premises" as long as he obeyed all the rules regarding record keeping, etc.)

As to how a dealer could always see a transaction that did not involve him, or how he could be "responsible" for any actions not his own or those of an employee, I don't know; I guess a court would have to decide if BATFE decided to make an arrest.

I don't think "licensed premises" could be stretched to include a whole shopping center, but a parking lot or parking space clearly part of the address on the license could be interpreted that way. I think anyone actually needing information on specific cases should contact BATFE.

Jim

started doing paperwork

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What kind of paperwork for a private sale?

jimmyraythomason said:

What kind of paperwork for a private sale?

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Form 4. Like I said, it was a machine gun.

Mike

Okay gotcha!

I once bought a gun in the parking lot, but only after the dealer and owner had failed to strike a deal.

It was a common parking lot with other stores, so that argument does not apply.
The dealer had his chance, I was not depriving him of business.