Is pepper spray better than a gun for anti-thug work?

Status
Not open for further replies.

piettakid

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
171
We still need guns for hunting and fighting the govt but for fighting criminals bear spray has a lot going for it. I'm talking about those big cannisters that cost $40 and contain 8 ounces of spray. Among their virtues

1. Don't really have to be aimed

2. Don't wreck your ears like shooting a gun indoors does. Very important to me.

3. Much cheaper than a gun

4. Fewer legal hassles. You shoot somebody and you're most likely gonna need a lawyer no matter how justified you were.

5. No chance of a bullet going thru a wall and killing some innocent.
 
Couple things.

1-Believe it or not this stuff doesn't work on everybody. Remember folks in the military are exposed to real CS gas so they are able to function at least in a limited way and know what to expect.

2-If you use any kind of pepper spray you better be prepared to be a victim of your own spraying. Mother Nature is a funny gal and with a little wind in the wrong direction you are both in a cloud.

3-Depending on the encounter you may have just enraged an attacker who will now press an attack in a blind rage.

Not that sprays are not options you just need to understand the limitations and I highly recommend you get sprayed so you know what to expect if you get back spray on you.



Chris
 
I carry pepper spray and a gun. Gives me a less than lethal option if warranted.

You should check state laws. I believe some distinguish between the strength for bears and the weaker version for people.

Good to have anyway, IMO.
 
Hundreds of uses

I have had the chance to use the stuff HUNDREDS of times and some was street use,some was jail use and a good deal was in academy on recruits.

The "bear spray" is the hottest and THE most effective.

I used it on the streets and as stated above = you WILL taste it yourself.

So it is without hesistation that I will attest to the bear spray HURTS and lasts a long time.

Still take a good deal of training in the carry & presentation of the stuff.

And do NOT use it in a hospital ER,too many people and injured to harm [ learned the hard way ].

And hell YES,many jurisdiction do NOT allow bear spray to be used on people
 
1. Don't really have to be aimed - Yeah you do, unless you go fog, which has it's own disadvantages you do have to aim.

2. Don't wreck your ears like shooting a gun indoors does. Very important to me. - We don't keep the .357 ready in the home just because of this, but we do keep the .45 and 12 gauge, yeah it may sting but no lasting damage
3. Much cheaper than a gun - irrelevant, they are totally different, I recommend you check out non-firearms weapons forum section here for more
4. Fewer legal hassles. You shoot somebody and you're most likely gonna need a lawyer no matter how justified you were. - nope, depends on the laws of the state, and either will have you questioned and most likely detained thoroughly.

5. No chance of a bullet going thru a wall and killing some innocent. - very little chance, but yes it could happen. In reality if this is your main concern they make very good frangible ammo now a days.


In the end, they are tools to respond to very different situations. With a violent attacker, pepper spray is not what i'd want to rely on.
 
Is pepper spray better than a gun for anti-thug work?

It depends on circumstances.

I feel that use of a weapon for defense will not get you much slack if the weapon is pepper spray and the use is reckless or unjustifiable under the circumstances. There is a chance the recepient may be allergic or suffocate or blunder into traffic; therefore, pepper spray is at best a less-lethal weapon in my opinion. The circumstance for use of less-lethal weapon must be reasonable and justified just as much as circumstance for use of a lethal weapon would be.

I have a spare keychain with car key, house key, and pepperspray. I also have a .38 and an IWB holster. I would not use either unless the circumstances justifed the use of a weapon period: prevention of death or crippling bodily harm.

On the other hand, your tool box should contain more tools than just a sledge hammer. Pepper spray is one weapon you can test by being on the receiving end. I can't say that for a gun, knife or five cell Maglite.

ADDED: this is only my opinion; for legal advice, contact a local attorney familiar with how the subject is treated by local police and courts.
 
No expert here... just repeating what a friend with many years of LE experience told me:

1. Not all sprays work equally well. Some are tepid enough to go well with chili.

2. My friend recommends Sabre Triple Action. It has very concentrated pepper spray with CS tear gas and UV marking die. His claim is that if you hit someone with it, they will be unable to resume their attack for at least half an hour. I have no actual experience. Someone here may have tried that particular brand and have more information to contribute.

3. Pepper spraying someone without just cause is not something you want to do. Use as judiciously as you would a firearm.

4. Once you spray someone, the question comes down to: Can you run faster with clear eyes that your adversary can when nearly blind?

Personally, I highly favor pepper spray. It's not going to kill anyone, it's small enough to carry conveniently (I keep mine in my shirt pocket), and it's cheap. If accosted by a group that wants to rob or attack me, I can probably disable half a dozen bad guys. I can spray and assess the results. If pepper solves the problem, fine and good. If it doesn't, Mr. 380 may speak up. That's measured escalation of force.
 
I have only used spray once. It was a can of sabre defense gel and it didn't phase the guy very much. I don't know if it was a bad batch or if I had chosen a more mild formula but I lost a lot of confidence in it.
 
1. Don't really have to be aimed
Yes, yes it does. I work in law enforcement and have used OC (Oleoresin Capsicum) Spray on several occasions. Hitting someone in the back does not have nearly the effect of hitting someone in the ear or face. Aim small, miss small still applies.

2. Don't wreck your ears like shooting a gun indoors does. Very important to me.
Spray a high OC content spray in a small area and you and anyone in the area or that even enters the area could be out of the fight. OC is the nuclear option, it is indiscriminate as to who you are and what your motives are. Oh and water is not your friend. OC reactivates on contact with water making a post exposure shower a real treat. Ask me how I know...

3. Much cheaper than a gun.
Well, you are correct on that count.

4. Fewer legal hassles. You shoot somebody and you're most likely gonna need a lawyer no matter how justified you were.
Not really, you have still used a significant amount of force against someone. If it is not a clean "shoot" then depending on the laws in your area you could be looking at assault charges. Though I guess that is better than murder if you shoot someone and are not justified...

5. No chance of a bullet going thru a wall and killing some innocent.
True, but that cloud of hate is going to spread. And if you spray from close up it will splash back on you or anyone near by.

I love OC but it has its own pros and cons that one needs to know before employing the nasty, hateful stuff. CS gas is not even in the same ball park as good strong OC. CS is a crystal and as long as you don't rub it in will go away in a breeze. OC is a resin. A pepper oil laden resin of burning hate that sticks to your skin and only get worse when water is applied. I have had two direct sprayings for training purposes and numerous contact contaminations. It burns my skin like I've had a sun burn and totally wrecks my sinus cavities. Heck one guy I sprayed ended up with chemical burns around his eye and ear, but he was beating the crap out of another guy and I was in the clear.

In the end, if I was truly, truly in fear for my life then no, I would not deploy OC. I will meet deadly force with deadly force and I will go home.
 
OC spray vs, say, a .45 ACP +P round? Yah, I'm sticking with the latter ....
 
We still need guns for hunting and fighting the govt but for fighting criminals bear spray has a lot going for it. I'm talking about those big cannisters that cost $40 and contain 8 ounces of spray. Among their virtues

1. Don't really have to be aimed

2. Don't wreck your ears like shooting a gun indoors does. Very important to me.

3. Much cheaper than a gun

4. Fewer legal hassles. You shoot somebody and you're most likely gonna need a lawyer no matter how justified you were.

5. No chance of a bullet going thru a wall and killing some innocent.

If you're worried about "legal hassles" you had better find yourself from pepper spray designed to be used against adults and not bears. Very similar to those who buy cans of insecticide to use against others. Both can do damage and both can provide the foundation for lawsuits.
 
3. Much cheaper than a gun

This argument always bugs me.

My life is worth way more than $40, $100, a million bucks, whatever. I don't look at life preservation as a matter of saving a few bucks.

Besides, the cost of ammo and training is where the real costs add up, not the gun

I'm still worth it.
 
Robert said, "I love OC but it has its own pros and cons that one needs to know before employing the nasty, hateful stuff. CS gas is not even in the same ball park as good strong OC."

I agree 100 percent. I have been hit with tear gas numerous times and was able to function through it. I have been hit with Pepper spray once. Pepper spray hurts bad. I have always thought it would be a great information gathering tool. Makes water boarding look like a school yard game. I know a lady who works at a court house who pepper sprayed a panhandler. She said, he was rubbing his face in the wet grass like a dog as she walked away.
 
This argument always bugs me.

My life is worth way more than $40, $100, a million bucks, whatever. I don't look at life preservation as a matter of saving a few bucks.

???? Few bucks? More like 500. Most people think that's important.
 
pietta kid said:
Is pepper spray better than a gun for anti-thug work?

Are you going to have the "thug" fill out a questionnaire before he attacks you on whether or not he intends to harm you?

Youtube has plenty of videos of police going through pepper spray training (required before you're allowed to carry it in every department I know of). It won't stop a determined individual from getting to you or shooting at you.

I've been through the training. Police OC spray in the eyes. Your eyes burn bad, but you can force them open momentarily. Your face and nose burn, and it's hard to breath.

We had to do 3 stations after being sprayed: After being sprayed in the eyes, run to station 1 about 10 yards away and do hand strikes until the trainer is satisfied, then run to station 2 about 10 yards away and do foot strikes until that trainer is satisfied, then run to station 3 about 10 yards away and do baton strikes. While doing baton strikes another trainer in full padding comes up behind you and tries to take your duty firearm out of your holster, at which time you have to perform weapon retention techniques and prevent him from getting your firearm.

All 20 people in my class completed all stations successfully.

It wasn't much fun, but it demonstrated to everyone that pepper spray couldn't stop a determined attacker. Out of about 20 people in the class, 5 were significantly affected (I was the worst, couldn't see to drive for 2 hours afterward), 10 were moderately affected, and on a couple of them it had no effect at all, you might as well have splashed a little water in their eyes.

pietta kid said:
OK - and one round of 45 +P indoors will cause significant damage to your ears.

There are lots of us still running around here who have experienced sustained M16, M60, and M240 fire indoors. Makes a 45 +P sound like a mouse fart.

I lost a little of my hearing in the high frequency ranges, but given the choice between sacrificing a little hearing or being dead, I think I'll stick with sacrificing the hearing.
 
Last edited:
One thing I do believe is that those who carry firearms (concealed or open) have the moral obligation to also carry a non-lethal weapon (ex. pepper spray.) The default action cannot always be to shoot.

I believe it should actually be a requirement of licensing. Some claim there is "no time" to choose which weapon to use. I find such people amusing and rather laughable. They either need to train or they need to train more.
 
aragon said:
Some claim there is "no time" to choose which weapon to use. I find such people amusing and rather laughable.

There's always at least a couple of milliseconds in which to choose. Plenty of time to use your Jedi powers to evaluate the attackers' intentions. Making the wrong choice will have little effect on you (nothing will ever again have ANY effect on you), but your widow and kids will probably notice that you're gone.
 
We use OC fairly often at work. Some individuals are very sensitive, some not as much. I have eaten the stuff on a cheeseburger on a dare. It was hot, but not very flavorful at all.

A few hundred for a quality handgun is nothing compared to your safety. Once more, you may very well have it for decades of service with little additional expense.

In an encounter with an individual intent on causing you great bodily harm you'll have to be your own best council on what action(s) to take.

OC very definitely has a place but to my thinking it shouldn't be an either/or with a firearm fom self defense. Apart from work I carry OC when walking our dog as some large neighborhood dogs have been a potential problem. If I can shut down a dog with OC so much the better. But dogs don't pull out a gun after you spray them and start shooting while clawing their eyes out.

BTW, there are de-con after expose sprays & wipes that help with post-expose. Or help....somewhat. Lots of water for eyes and really (if you can stand it and have access) sauna & shower to push the residue from your pores. No matter what a good spraying seems to come back to haunt you for a few days after.
 
One thing I do believe is that those who carry firearms (concealed or open) have the moral obligation to also carry a non-lethal weapon (ex. pepper spray.)
A moral obligation? Sorry, but this is one of the more preposterous statements I've seen in a while, or in the past few days of incredibly preposterous statements.

However, Aragon, if this is how you feel, kindly explain your reasoning. There's never a "default" to using using deadly force if one is not presented with a lethal threat.
 
I was engaged with a very threating fellow in my driveway last Dec. He acused me of breaking into his GF's apt and got right up to me repeatly cocking his arm and threating to break my face.
As far as I could tell he was not armed, but I sure didn't want to get in a fight with this guy.
I got the situation peacefully settled and later looked up Alaska law on the subject. Since he never displayed a weapion I may have got in trouble for pulling a gun on him. Alaska law says in that situation only "non lethal" force may be used, and they mention bear spray.

I started a thread on the incedent that's very good reading.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=794590
 
Last edited:
???? Few bucks? More like 500. Most people think that's important.

If all you're worried about is money, just carry a tree branch, that' s free.

So you're saying that you'd rather be laid out on a coroner's slab over $500? If you can't afford that, there are cheaper and used alternatives.

Besides, I've spent over 10x on ammo and training what I have on firearms.

Yes, my life is worth it.
 
OK - and one round of 45 +P indoors will cause significant damage to your ears.

Not as much damage as an enraged assailant could cause to one's entire body, up to and including, taking your life.

I believe it should actually be a requirement of licensing.

LOL!
 
Many criminals are on some sort of drugs. I can't remember specifically but there was a video on Youtube of several cops trying to take one big guy down and the multiple pepper sprays seem to have done nothing. They literally had to jump on him drag him to the ground with their weight.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top