Would you support the No Fly No Buy List if they added Due Process?

Would you support the No Fly No Buy List if Due Process was added?

  • Yes

    Votes: 144 41.0%
  • No

    Votes: 207 59.0%

  • Total voters
    351
  • Poll closed .
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In a word, no.

Exactly how many people on the 'no fly' list have shot up a place? If you are so dangerous that you are not allowed on a commercial airliner perhaps you are dangerous enough that you should be in jail or deported.

Same goes for social security recipients. Have enough of 'em gone off the rails that we need to take all their guns?
 
I don't think those who voted "yes" understand the watch lists. We know they are arbitrary and random with many false positives. But what many do not understand is their intent. It is a device used to deny rights and privileges expressly without due process. If due process were a part of the system, we would not have a "no fly" list, but rather an "indicted" list and a "we're sorry for wasting your time" list.
 
No. I agree with the above post. The intent is to deny due process in the first place. Theoretically a "yes" sounds appealing, but what if your name is on that list and your only "due process" is to spend thousands of dollars tying to get your name removed. No thanks.
 
I only support the NRA position on the issue which is that terrorists should not be allowed to purchase or possess firearms, no exceptions. Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is in process. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be permitted to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist.

At the same time, due process protections should be maintained to allow law-abiding citizens who are wrongly included on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the current U.S. Senate.
 
In case you missed it, there are no due process provisions for watch lists, no fly lists, etc. Please refer to post 127. There is no process by which a "normal" person can remove himself from a list. Sitting senators have had troubles with this. What chance do you or i have? As far as "provisions being maintained", either you are not quoting them correctly or they are lying to you. You cannot maintain that which does not exist.
 
That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the current U.S. Senate.
I sure hope to hell you're wrong about that.
 
JDR said:
At the same time, due process protections should be maintained to allow law-abiding citizens who are wrongly included on a watchlist to be removed. That has been the position of Sen. John Cornyn (R.-Tex.) and a majority of the current U.S. Senate.

It wouldn't be due process if anyone with the initials JDR was imprisoned tomorrow without a trial, based only on suspicion, then allowed the opportunity to prove their innocence and be released.

We have a presumption of innocence - Innocent until proven guilty. The government must present evidence that you have committed a crime and you must be convicted (or plead guilty) to be punished. That is due process. Denying anyone his rights based only on suspicion is a punishment without a trial.
 
The NRA board of directors are committing organizational suicide by promoting the folly of "no fly - no buy". The reason why is that that leftists consider the NRA members to be "terrorists". Do you think this is a joke? Just read what leftists have to say about NRA members.

"The NRA Is A Terrorist Organization"
http://modernliberals.com/nra-terrorist-organization/

"The National Rifle Association needs to be listed as a Terrorist organization"
http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/declare-the-nra-a-terrorist

"Is the NRA a terrorist organization? By George W. Bush's standard -- you're either with us or against us in the fight against terrorism -- NRA chief Wayne LaPierre should be just a few frequent-flier miles short of a free ticket to Gitmo right about now."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../AR2010050505211.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

"The New York Times editorial board on Thursday said the National Rifle Association (NRA) plays a role in terrorism."
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/283725-ny-times-rips-nras-complicity-in-terrorism

"New York Daily News: State Dept Must Designate the NRA a Terrorist Organization"
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...pt-must-designate-nra-terrorist-organization/

"How the National Rifle Association evolved from a Shooting Club to a Terrorist Organization"
https://riversong.wordpress.com/the-nra-story/

"The NRA is a Terrorist Organization"
http://www.davidjdunn.com/2015/12/03/the-nra-is-a-terrorist-organization/

-----------------------------------
What kind of idiots would volunteer to put their own necks in a noose? (Answer: NRA directors)

I used to be a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, but he just lost my vote over the one issue.
 
Never the 'No Fly' list as that list is a mess even by government standards and acknowledged by government officials.
 
The 'Due Process' being proposed is a hearing before the FISC (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court). Do a quick Google search on the FISC's record, and you'll quickly see that it's a rubber stamp joke of a Judicial check on Executive power.

Hearings before the FISC are not adversarial. The petitioner is not allowed to make a case, nor hear any evidence against him or her. The Executive presents its case without rebuttal, and the court decides based solely on the 'merit' of the Executive's presentation of the evidence.

https://epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/fisc/

No. No damned way, no how.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Do a quick Google search on the FISC's record, and you'll quickly see that it's a rubber stamp joke of a Judicial check on Executive power.

Surely it can't be as bad as that. They must let you see the charges against you:

nsa_redacted.png

[/S]
 
But 316SS, can you not see that now, the FBI will now ________, and before they had to ____________________? That can't be anything but an increase in federal efficiency! :D :D :barf:

The 'Due Process' being proposed is a hearing before the FISC (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court)
The FISA is itself an absolute travesty of Due Process, always has been. "Those foreigners don't have any rights from our perspective, so we can have the 'ol CIA/NSA/Etc do whatever overseas, and well, if some domestic citizens get mixed up in it due to the nature of modern communications integration, that's a bonus as far as we can tell"

Any sane or honest review of their logic would conclude that NONE of the data they are sifting through is fair game so long as innocent American citizens' personal "papers" are present in the haystack --not that it does not matter how tiny the fraction of pertinent or acceptable information is in the bulk of comms being catalogued, so long as foreign communications are present and the 'intended' target of the program. The whole point of FISA is to avoid the sane or honest review, and have a Star Chamber arrangement where a bogus legal body grants a fig leaf of justification for arbitrary or illegal Executive practices.

TCB
 
Last week I called my Exterminating Company, complaining I had ant tracks.

This week I received an email from the DHS saying I am on the watch list?
There will be no contact, if you are on the list you will not be informed.
There can be no do process as this would compromise the investigation.
 
Alot of ignorance here... I happen to know of 3 local Vets who are on no fly lists...One holds a bronze star with valor and retired from the USMC... Not one thing on his background to prevent him from owning firearms. In fact he buys one or two a month and passes the NICS check everytime without delay.
 
Gunnerboy said:
Alot of ignorance here... I happen to know of 3 local Vets who are on no fly lists...One holds a bronze star with valor and retired from the USMC... Not one thing on his background to prevent him from owning firearms. In fact he buys one or two a month and passes the NICS check everytime without delay.

If the proposed bill is passed, your decorated Marine friend will be a prohibited person.
 
Warp said:
You mean the bill that failed to pass yesterday?

It is widely being reported to be ongoing. I'm on mobile, I haven't been able to confirm either way. Are you suggesting they have given this up?
 
Spot on. I don't understand why more folks don't see the obvious problem with the No Fly or the Watch list(s): if the people on the list are so bad, than arrest them, interrogate them, and either charge them or deport them. Period. The Watch list is north of 900K names! Unmanageable and useless. As well as un-American and un-constitutional. The Orlando jihadist was on the list, lot of good that did..... Also, wonder if they ever got Sen Ted Kennedy's name off the list, as he was on it, too (at least for a time...).
 
Uh, guys?

Sen. Susan Collins rolled out a bipartisan group of Senate supporters Tuesday for a compromise gun control measure that would prohibit any person on either of two federal terrorism watch lists from buying firearms.

The group called the bill a viable alternative to the four gun control measures that failed to win the 60 votes needed for approval in the Senate on Monday.

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/06/21/susan-collins-builds-senate-coalition-for-no-fly-no-buy-gun-control/
 
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